POLL: Stephen Segal VS. Chuck Norris

This is a discussion on POLL: Stephen Segal VS. Chuck Norris within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Chuck Norris was the world champion in full contact Karate comp. Seagal is an actor... Yeah he owned a dojo, but still, doing kata and ...

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Thread: POLL: Stephen Segal VS. Chuck Norris

  1. #61
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    Chuck Norris was the world champion in full contact Karate comp. Seagal is an actor... Yeah he owned a dojo, but still, doing kata and practicing deflections is not really the same as stepping into a ring.
    uhh nope.



    I studied Hakkoryo Jujutsu - which is similar to Aikido- for several years. I get it, I understand the difference between the two arts. No matter the art, you put a guy with a ton of real world fighting experince against a guy that just practices, and experience wins. IMO.
    jujutsu is no where near as refined as aikido. aikido is actually a more refined version of aiki-jutsu, which is itself far more refined (and complex) than jujutsu. morishi usheba was an aiki-jutsu master. google it.

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    For being a guy who is just an actor and knows nothing but a weak art, oddly the worlds arguable best ever MMA fighter has retained not Norris or JCVD but Seagal (!) to work with him on prep.

    UFC 117: Steven Seagal training Anderson Silva for Chael Sonnen fight on Aug. 7 (Video) - MMA Mania
    Jun 20, 2010 5:37 PM EDT

    For those who have no idea who Anderson Silva is and/or who might think he too is just an actor or some sort of low/no talent clown...

    Anderson da Silva[5] (born April 14, 1975) is a Brazilian mixed martial arts fighter. He is the current UFC Middleweight Champion[6] as well as the promotion's longest reigning champion.[7] With 12 consecutive wins, Silva holds the longest active winning streak in the UFC and the record for the longest winning streak in UFC history.[8] Silva holds a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu under Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira. He currently trains with Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira and Lyoto Machida at Black House.

    Silva is currently ranked as the number one Middleweight in the world by multiple MMA publications;[9][10][11][12] Sherdog and Yahoo! rank Silva as the top pound-for-pound fighter in the world.[13][14] Since 2006 he has been the UFC Middleweight Champion,[15] and he is also the last Cage Rage Middleweight Champion and former Shooto Middleweight Champion. Besides the UFC and Cage Rage, Silva has fought for a number of other MMA promotions including the Pride Fighting Championships, Shooto and Rumble on the Rock.

    Source - Anderson Silva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Record 26 - 4 - 0 (Win - Loss - Draw)
    Wins 15 (T)KOs ( 57.69 %)
    4 Submissions ( 15.38 %)
    7 Decisions ( 26.92 %)
    Losses 2 Submissions ( 50 %)
    1 Decisions ( 25 %)
    1 Other ( 25 %)

    Source - Anderson "The Spider" Silva MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography, and More - Sherdog.com
    BTW Seagal's scene where he put the pimp through the windshield of a parked car is a manner of homage to Norris famous scene in 'Good Guys Wear Black' where he launches his whole body through the windshield of a car to as per his usual flying kick his enemy into unconsciousness or death.
    For ages Chuck's signature move was the high and axe kick (akin to Hulk Hogan's leg drop move and Stallones left right combo upon being hit in the Rocky films), until he discovered that guns, Vietnam era bazookas and dirtbikes with duct taped rockets mounted to the handlebars could kill people more efficiently and at distance beyond that of his high or axe kicks.

    YouTube - Chuck Norris Good Guys Wear Black

    I'm a fan of Chuck too and grew up watching his films, like everybody else did, along with Jim Kelly and Bill Wallace aka 'Superfoot'.
    But seriously Chuck's fighting style is/was limited, being focused on high and axe kicks...Out kicking competitor high & axe kickers in high and axe kicking competitions.

    Chuck Norris fights Karate Taekwondo (1 fight vs Joe Lewis)
    YouTube - Chuck Norris fights Karate Taekwondo (1 fight vs Joe Lewis)

    Chuck Norris vs Joe Lewis Karate fight (International 1967)
    YouTube - Chuck Norris vs Joe Lewis Karate fight (International 1967)

    BRUCE LEE vs CHUCK NORRIS [Fight scene from Enter The Dragon]
    YouTube - BRUCE LEE vs CHUCK NORRIS

    Chuck Norris helps Undertaker against Yokozuna (WWF)
    YouTube - Chuck Norris helps Undertaker against Yokozuna (WWF)

    - Janq

    P.S. - Agreed again Don Glock, on all points and info.
    Seagal trained under the best aikido instructors modern Japan had to offer over a 30 yr. time frame, instructors multiple, and they them self are well recognized as being the pinnacle of Aikido and not just in Japan but worldwide(!).
    As well as noted prior Seagal was the first and only westerner to open and maintain as a _sensei_ an Aikido dojo in Japan. Folks might not understand how all kinds of unusual/special this feat alone is.
    People need to forget for a moment about him being an actor (Jesse Ventura, Ronald Reagan, Chuck Norris (!), Bruce Lee (!) and many others have been as well) as that does not reduce the other facts of his well documented background...And that of his specialty martial art, though he is also proficient in others including karate too.
    BTW had Bruce Lee made it to be in his mid 50s he'd very likely be overweight/fat too. And folks would be talking same of ehh he's just a hollywood actor, he doesn't actually really have any skill...Unlike three decade long _hollywood actor_ Chuck Norris. Huh?!

    Like you I too base my view and vote purely on technical capability and technique of practiced art.
    If the question had been who would I invite to my summer pool party or who would I prefer to be my neighbor, then things would be different entirely as that is an item purely based on popularity and/or who made the cooler movies as an _actor_.

    A Seagal vs. Norris battle as during their respective peaks (Norris is older) would have been epic no matter who would walk away winner.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  4. #63
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    Chuck Norris's hand beats a royal flush.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  5. #64
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I studied Hakkyo Ryu jujuitsu and Aikido and I think both trump most martial arts except Krav Magna for "street applications." I have had to use my Aikido in the school system several times over the last several years as a school teacher in an inner city high school . I am by NO means a "Black Belt!" I'm not even a "senior student" with the black HAKAMA PANTS (although I do own a pair in anticipation of promotion). Yet Aikido has still "been there for me" in several real world situations. Nobody has ever been put down hard enough to require a doctor or even EMT attention. That's because Aikido allows me to control a situation and measure my response to the level required.

    Don't forget, Seagal is a real world reserve police officer and has been in Louisiana for 20+ years. You don't think he had to use his art on suspects over that time period? When was the last time chuck used HIS in the "real world?" Chuck's still in great shape but he IS in his 70's. My late father in law passed away just last January. He was in his mid 80s. As a youth he was a golden gloves boxer and as a US MArine, he won the Navy Cross in WWII. In his 70's do you think he could have gone toe to toe with some punk? That's why he carried a J-Frame.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #65
    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Janq;1698268]For being a guy who is just an actor and knows nothing but a weak art, oddly the worlds arguable best ever MMA fighter has retained not Norris or JCVD but Seagal (!) to work with him on prep.

    I hope you aren't implying that I typed Aikido is a 'weak art' as I never did. I was simply comparing the two men. The fact is, no one really knows what Seagal is capable of because he has never publically used his skills (as far as I know of course).

    I know who Sylva is and I have watched him fight many times. If you read posts from the MMA community they think Seagal training Sylva is a joke.
    Last edited by Footslogger; July 11th, 2010 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Typos
    Dave

    "When among wild beasts, if they menace you, be a wild beast."
    -Herman Melville

  7. #66
    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Glock View Post
    uhh nope.





    jujutsu is no where near as refined as aikido. aikido is actually a more refined version of aiki-jutsu, which is itself far more refined (and complex) than jujutsu. morishi usheba was an aiki-jutsu master. google it.
    Thanks but I had the 'my martial art is better than yours' argument enough when I was a kid. They all have their advantages, and that was not the point of my post. My point was one of the two individuals one has real world experience.
    Dave

    "When among wild beasts, if they menace you, be a wild beast."
    -Herman Melville

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footslogger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    For being a guy who is just an actor and knows nothing but a weak art, oddly the worlds arguable best ever MMA fighter has retained not Norris or JCVD but Seagal (!) to work with him on prep.
    I hope you aren't implying that I typed Aikido is a 'weak art' as I never did. I was simply comparing the two men. The fact is, no one really knows what Seagal is capable of because he has never publically used his skills (as far as I know of course).

    I know who Sylva is and I have watched him fight many times. If you read posts from the MMA community they think Seagal training Sylva is a joke.

    Even though you were the most recent poster against, in all actuality I was not at all thinking of you specifically or for that matter a single person at all...But rather as what is the general view and opinion here and elsewhere whenever the Norris vs. Seagal vs. JCVD subject comes up which among the internet alone is quite common.

    Further as I had stated in prior posts _before_ you made your firt, other people do see the way of Aikido and how it is practiced to only by that and general ignorance assume it to be "flowery" (I'd stated exactly this prior), gentle, oriented only towards defense with little to no offensive skill and is based singularly on joint locks and throws.
    Yes I have read the MMA entrys, heck as much is right there in my own link (!) as same among the story detail and the follow on comments.

    MMA community folk are no different than folk here...Ehh he's fat now (forgetting that he's 30 yrs. older than from his screen debut!) and he's just a hollywood actor with no real skills just like; JCVD, Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Bolo Yeung, Bill Wallace, Jim Kelly, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Cynthia Rothrock and all the other wire using stunt opponent having 'not really tested' types who didn't fight in an octagon or cage and go up against a Gracie as artists might do today.

    Regardless of what the MMA 'community' (of largely non-fighting PPV watchers who post comments on web forums) might think, that still again does not invalidate the fact that the worlds best modern fighter current made a first hand personal decision to seek out Seagal, knowing and being fully aware that much of the 'community' would snicker and laugh.
    That in and of itself is saying something...Never mind allowing himself to be documented as same on video training with him. Something he otherwise does not need for publicity or any other theoriy reason. And he did not hire Chuck Norris, nor has anyone for that matter to my knowledge.

    Because being an actor or getting old and by that having your metabolism slow down resulting in weight gain, balding & wrinkles (which is quite common and _normal_ among the human population) completely invalidates any and all prior actual training, practical/street experience and/or tournament experience one might have had...Especially so if they are portrayed as being an arrogant personality on screen (or are as much IRL) and/or if they had a career for making chop socky silly fantastical type films where they are near super human in capability.

    Unless of course your name is Chuck Norris, or Bruce Lee.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #68
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footslogger View Post
    Thanks but I had the 'my martial art is better than yours' argument enough when I was a kid. They all have their advantages, and that was not the point of my post. My point was one of the two individuals one has real world experience.
    Yes but to gain level in Aikido you have to pass "real world" challenges. Its not like the cheap "black belts" they hand out at your local Karate shop. You don't get to be a master of Aikido by breaking boards or winning a fight by points.

    To get to where Segal is, you have to win fights. You have to prove yourself against challengers who are not joking around because they DO NOT want you to progress.

    So we can't really say that Segal has NO real world experience. He has less than Norris, but its far from enough less to make a huge difference.

    And unless Norris has beaten an Aikido master, technically, he has no experience that will apply to fighting a guy like Segal. You just don't beat an Aikido master with a few spinning high kicks. You have to dismantle their defense, you have to fool them into making a wrong move, you have to show them something and take it away....... it is very much a methodical chess match to beat an Aikido master, you won't do it with experience you learned while fighting MMA fights, street fights etc...... Its not unbeatable..... but for most people its very hard to deal with.

  10. #69
    Member Array rickmn50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Okay, too many folks here are comparing the two of them as they stand TODAY. Now go back and pit them against each other when both are young and at the TOP of their martial arts. I still say Seagal wipes the floor with Chuck and God knows I LOVE Chuck.
    Both guys in their primes...Segal wrecks Chuck in 1 minute.
    Best Regards from Minnesota,

    Rick

  11. #70
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    Are we seriously debating this? For real?





    My dad could beat up your dad!
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  12. #71
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Are we seriously debating this? For real?





    My dad could beat up your dad!
    you would be the only debating that

    we're comparing martial arts, bro. if you don't like the debate, then bye bye.

  13. #72
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Oh please, Seagal was an actor first and foremost. Sure he took some lessons and was belt promoted.

    Chuck was a national and world champion and actually got in the ring and got his butt handed to him on several ocassions, plus he came up the hard way, he took lessons while in the Air Force. I know people say we should have hero's, pis_ on them. Chuck Norris is my hero and I patterned my Martial Arts career after him (without the movies). No one takes Chuck, no one!!

    Chuck would whoop Seagals arse all over the streets and parking lots.

    As far as the dancer Van Damn, not even close.

    Just so the record is straight here, I have a post below, I am being mostly sarcastic here in this one, I still think Chuck would take Seagal.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    For being a guy who is just an actor and knows nothing but a weak art, oddly the worlds arguable best ever MMA fighter has retained not Norris or JCVD but Seagal (!) to work with him on prep.

    UFC 117: Steven Seagal training Anderson Silva for Chael Sonnen fight on Aug. 7 (Video) - MMA Mania
    Jun 20, 2010 5:37 PM EDT

    For those who have no idea who Anderson Silva is and/or who might think he too is just an actor or some sort of low/no talent clown...





    BTW Seagal's scene where he put the pimp through the windshield of a parked car is a manner of homage to Norris famous scene in 'Good Guys Wear Black' where he launches his whole body through the windshield of a car to as per his usual flying kick his enemy into unconsciousness or death.
    For ages Chuck's signature move was the high and axe kick (akin to Hulk Hogan's leg drop move and Stallones left right combo upon being hit in the Rocky films), until he discovered that guns, Vietnam era bazookas and dirtbikes with duct taped rockets mounted to the handlebars could kill people more efficiently and at distance beyond that of his high or axe kicks.

    YouTube - Chuck Norris Good Guys Wear Black

    I'm a fan of Chuck too and grew up watching his films, like everybody else did, along with Jim Kelly and Bill Wallace aka 'Superfoot'.
    But seriously Chuck's fighting style is/was limited, being focused on high and axe kicks...Out kicking competitor high & axe kickers in high and axe kicking competitions.

    Chuck Norris fights Karate Taekwondo (1 fight vs Joe Lewis)
    YouTube - Chuck Norris fights Karate Taekwondo (1 fight vs Joe Lewis)

    Chuck Norris vs Joe Lewis Karate fight (International 1967)
    YouTube - Chuck Norris vs Joe Lewis Karate fight (International 1967)

    BRUCE LEE vs CHUCK NORRIS [Fight scene from Enter The Dragon]
    YouTube - BRUCE LEE vs CHUCK NORRIS

    Chuck Norris helps Undertaker against Yokozuna (WWF)
    YouTube - Chuck Norris helps Undertaker against Yokozuna (WWF)

    - Janq

    P.S. - Agreed again Don Glock, on all points and info.
    Seagal trained under the best aikido instructors modern Japan had to offer over a 30 yr. time frame, instructors multiple, and they them self are well recognized as being the pinnacle of Aikido and not just in Japan but worldwide(!).
    As well as noted prior Seagal was the first and only westerner to open and maintain as a _sensei_ an Aikido dojo in Japan. Folks might not understand how all kinds of unusual/special this feat alone is.
    People need to forget for a moment about him being an actor (Jesse Ventura, Ronald Reagan, Chuck Norris (!), Bruce Lee (!) and many others have been as well) as that does not reduce the other facts of his well documented background...And that of his specialty martial art, though he is also proficient in others including karate too.
    BTW had Bruce Lee made it to be in his mid 50s he'd very likely be overweight/fat too. And folks would be talking same of ehh he's just a hollywood actor, he doesn't actually really have any skill...Unlike three decade long _hollywood actor_ Chuck Norris. Huh?!

    Like you I too base my view and vote purely on technical capability and technique of practiced art.
    If the question had been who would I invite to my summer pool party or who would I prefer to be my neighbor, then things would be different entirely as that is an item purely based on popularity and/or who made the cooler movies as an _actor_.

    A Seagal vs. Norris battle as during their respective peaks (Norris is older) would have been epic no matter who would walk away winner.
    Chucks to busy, making international teams for goodwill promotions and kicking drugs out of schools to train mixed martial artist, so let's not get to carried away that Chuck was not chosen to train this fine young man.

    I know all of Seagals fame and such, he's got some good credentials and all, this is one of those fun threads to an extent, but let's be serious, give me someone who has the experience along with all the other credentials also. The MMA fighters would be better off with an Aikido MAer in my book anyways. I agree Jang, no one should dismiss Seagal due to his art, I've seen many Aikido practioners do some whooping on fools who thought it was nothing more then a exercise system.

    Don't forget though,, Chuck had a bit of ring experience and physical fights and it was not all 3 decades of hollywood in the 60s/70s fighting in the ring against the likes of Joe Lewis, Superfoot, Skipper Mullins and others.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  15. #74
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    plz no more quoting mile long posts.

  16. #75
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    Something I haven't seen mentioned as of yet is that Seagal also trains in Escrima (A system thats well versed in armed as well as unarmed combat), therefore he has both offensive as well as defensive skills.

    In other words, he wouldn't be limited to merely waiting on Chuck to attack first.

    Seagal is also not someone who started in movies and then began his training (as was falsely stated), he started training in Japan in the 60's, and home movies of him from that time period are available online for viewing.

    In their prime, I'm giving the edge to Seagal.

    YouTube - Steven Segal

    YouTube - Steven Segal Kicking real life ASS! Aikido Martial Art
    "Stand your ground, don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" - John Parker April 19th, 1775 Lexington, MA

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