OK I'm Officially offended...

This is a discussion on OK I'm Officially offended... within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; The way I always look at this problem is that if I were to go to another country to live and work there (not just ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    The way I always look at this problem is that if I were to go to another country to live and work there (not just visit on vacation), then I would have the respect to learn their language. I do realize that technically english is not our national language for whatever reason but it is the dominant language, and it is also the language used by our government. So to me it just shows a lack of respect by those that come here to live but think that we should learn their language to communicate with them.
    I am not one of those people that cries "everyone in the world should just learn english!", but if you are living in the United States then I think you should. If you want to speak your native language with your friends and family thats awesome go for it, but when our country has to cater to you because you won't speak our native language that is ridiculous. JMO
    Well said Charlie well said indeed.... N in response to English eventually winning out, there are several SIFI novels out there that refer to the new language in the future called Spanglish, a messy mix of both.... but then in Blade runner it leaned toward orential..... so with the unchecked influx who knows with will be in 100 years..... Hum weird, my spell checker acknowledged Spanglish but not Wiccen (earlier post relpy)....
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    If a company wants to send out ads in another language, fine. I sure won't be reading them.
    If they want to have customer service avaliable in another language, fine. Good for them.
    Many companies in Germany (where I lived for a while) would have english speaking customer service people there, that was fine.
    However, when I was in Germany, I was indeed expected to speak German, which I of course did 100% of the time. (You also learn it a lot faster that way). Businesses can do whatever they want; that is their right.
    However, if someone starts MAKING us have to learn spanish... thats where I would have a big problem (ei. the whole police having to speak spanish issue thats come up as of late). If you don't know the language spoken around you, thats your own fault. I do believe though that schools schould be taught in engllish for example. by all means, have some classes or afterschool programs to help non english speaking people learn english, but dont force enlgish speakers to learn spanish when they live in the states.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    Guess we know who their target is.
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  5. #19
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    Well, if we're trying to figure out society's language problems, why does Mickey D's have brail at it drive up speakers? They do...look next time.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    So Sheldon, K~pasa?
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Marketing messages are sent out in Spanish because there's a market there. FYI, there are television networks, ad agencies, cable channels, radio stations that are targeted at the Spanish-speaking population, because it's good business to do so. Last I checked, free enterprise is a pretty good thing. I suppose what you're really saying is you're offended there's a Spanish-speaking population large enough to constitute a significant market, and you're offended that a company has the audacity to want to sell things to that market. A pretty anti-business attitude.
    Cheers,
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array RemMod597's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    If I'm at a Walmart, I like to go thru the self-checkout, and then start asking them.... as I point at the English / Espanol buttons....

    Wo ist Deutsch ? (where is German).

    I mean, lets really be PC and put a whole language section in there to choose the one you like best, or keep it to English and quit playing with it.
    Fixed it. "Wer" would be "who".


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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    Marketing messages are sent out in Spanish because there's a market there. FYI, there are television networks, ad agencies, cable channels, radio stations that are targeted at the Spanish-speaking population, because it's good business to do so. Last I checked, free enterprise is a pretty good thing. I suppose what you're really saying is you're offended there's a Spanish-speaking population large enough to constitute a significant market, and you're offended that a company has the audacity to want to sell things to that market. A pretty anti-business attitude.
    No I'm more offended that they make special provisions for a single minority, like it has been posted here, where is it in Native American they are a huge (larger) part of the population of this country, how about French for all the boys in Louisiana, the Spanish speaking population in this part of the county is a percentile, but I see TV ads totally in Spanish, and now I get junk mail in a language that is not that of this country, maybe I should go visit Mexico again and demand they send me stuff in english and see what happens.... No wait they throw those people in jail down there.....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    My 4 grandparents came here in the early 1900s. They spoke little English, and as they learned to use English they still preferred to use Yiddish in the home. There was a vibrant Yiddish culture in NYC until about the early 1970s; newspapers in Yiddish, radio station in Yiddish, store advertising in Yiddish, newspaper ads in Yiddish. Out green grocer was Italian. He learned to speak Yiddish in order to satisfy his customers.

    Today, Yiddish is almost a dead language. Few know it at all. My grandparent's children spoke English and Yiddish interchangeably. Their children (my generation) use only English.

    The same will happen with the Spanish speaking immigrants. Give it a generation or two.
    Sadly I think you are wrong. I grew up in Manhattan and also saw immigrant languages disappear within a generation, sometimes less because there was no choice. Had friends whose parents learned English from Greek and Hungarian. But the Spanish speakers have been pandered to and have NO reason to learn English, they can take their drivers test (for example) IN Spanish unlike the immigrants who speak languages other than English/Spanish, so there is no real reason for them to learn.

    WHo do you blame? Don't know, because it's something we've done to ourselves over the years.......
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    No I'm more offended that they make special provisions for a single minority, like it has been posted here, where is it in Native American they are a huge (larger) part of the population of this country, how about French for all the boys in Louisiana, the Spanish speaking population in this part of the county is a percentile, but I see TV ads totally in Spanish, and now I get junk mail in a language that is not that of this country, maybe I should go visit Mexico again and demand they send me stuff in english and see what happens.... No wait they throw those people in jail down there.....
    Once again, you miss the point. We're talking here about private-sector marketing, which does not depend solely on the size of the population segment, but rather on the size of the market. Targeting a Spanish-speaking market segment is no different than targeting any other market segment, such as Ohio State alumni, or Dallas Cowboys fans, or gun owners. It's business. A business does what sells. There's nothing to do with public policy here as applies to Comcast's directed marketing.

    And by the way, since you are unaware, there are in fact newspapers, radio stations and TV channels which are directly aimed at other "foreign" language speakers. For example, Time Warner Cable here in San Antonio has Saigon Broadcasting Network, The Filipino Channel, TV Japan, and Deutsche Welle, in addition to Univision, Telemundo and others. I occasionally see ads for them on standard cable channels. It's nothing to get offended about. It's just business.

    I'd be interested if you could back up your silly statement about people being thrown in jail in Mexico for asking for junk mail in English. I'll wager there's in fact lots and lots of English junk mail going around.

    And another reminder: Spanish is in fact "of this country". We have no official national language.

    So, once again, it's obvious that you resent the population, and perceive that you're being harmed in some way by a business which markets to that population. Just throw the junk mail away, and don't worry about how a private company does business.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    Once again, you miss the point. We're talking here about private-sector marketing,
    Not always..... See my post above, that is (was) Local/State government and I'm talking as far back as the 60's. I still remember my (future) wife had a Greek friend whose relative came over and couldn't pass his NY State drivers test because he couldn't read English or Spanish..... The ONLY two languages the test was given in. And I wouldn't be saying anything if the test had been in English only, the point is be fair to everyone, equally!

    Now to be honest, I don't know if NY has added more languages over the years, but most bilingual (government produced) signs I see even today are English/Spanish. Anyone else is out of luck!

    I'll add, when I was stationed overseas I tried to at least (mostly unsuccessfully) to pickup some of the language (Japanese and Korean).
    Rick

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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Not always..... See my post above, that is (was) Local/State government and I'm talking as far back as the 60's. I still remember my (future) wife had a Greek friend whose relative came over and couldn't pass his NY State drivers test because he couldn't read English or Spanish..... The ONLY two languages the test was given in. And I wouldn't be saying anything if the test had been in English only, the point is be fair to everyone, equally!

    Now to be honest, I don't know if NY has added more languages over the years, but most bilingual (government produced) signs I see even today are English/Spanish. Anyone else is out of luck!

    I'll add, when I was stationed overseas I tried to at least (mostly unsuccessfully) to pickup some of the language (Japanese and Korean).
    Rick, my response was directed to the original poster, who expressed offense at a private business's advertisement. Agreement or disagreement with government policy is a different topic.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    Once again, you miss the point. We're talking here about private-sector marketing, which does not depend solely on the size of the population segment, but rather on the size of the market. Targeting a Spanish-speaking market segment is no different than targeting any other market segment, such as Ohio State alumni, or Dallas Cowboys fans, or gun owners. It's business. A business does what sells. There's nothing to do with public policy here as applies to Comcast's directed marketing.

    And by the way, since you are unaware, there are in fact newspapers, radio stations and TV channels which are directly aimed at other "foreign" language speakers. For example, Time Warner Cable here in San Antonio has Saigon Broadcasting Network, The Filipino Channel, TV Japan, and Deutsche Welle, in addition to Univision, Telemundo and others. I occasionally see ads for them on standard cable channels. It's nothing to get offended about. It's just business.

    I'd be interested if you could back up your silly statement about people being thrown in jail in Mexico for asking for junk mail in English. I'll wager there's in fact lots and lots of English junk mail going around.
    And another reminder: Spanish is in fact "of this country". We have no official national language.

    So, once again, it's obvious that you resent the population, and perceive that you're being harmed in some way by a business which markets to that population. Just throw the junk mail away, and don't worry about how a private company does business.
    Not silly fact try and stage a protest in Mexico and see where it lands you... don't think so go try it I'll pay for your ticket, but not legal fees.....

    Didn't say harm, said offended, and yes the larger cities such as Chicago, LA, NY, have ethnic only radio and TV stations, you can find them on cable... and their population density promotes such efforts, but not in this part of the country.
    I have been in Walmarts that I felt like I was in Mexico were the wife N I were the only gringos in the joint, real good idea to have lots of Spanish speaking materials there, go into walmart here and you may actually see one family group, buy a TV, Radio, window fan, laptop and you will find directions in German, French, Italian, English, Spanish, and 2 or 3 others that I have no idea what they are, that is just good thought process, but not when they target an area like this with maybe a .02% Hispanic population....

    as for English not being official not sure if this ever made it out of committee but....


    Bill Text
    109th Congress (2005-2006)
    S.2611.ES, section 767

    SEC. 767. ENGLISH AS NATIONAL LANGUAGE.

    (a) In General- Title 4, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

    CHAPTER 6--LANGUAGE OF THE GOVERNMENT

    Sec.

    161. Declaration of national language.

    162. Preserving and enhancing the role of the national language.

    Sec. 161. Declaration of national language

    English is the national language of the United States.

    Sec. 162. Preserving and enhancing the role of the national language

    The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the national language of the United States of America. Unless otherwise authorized or provided by law, no person has a right, entitlement, or claim to have the Government of the United States or any of its officials or representatives act, communicate, perform or provide services, or provide materials in any language other than English. If exceptions are made, that does not create a legal entitlement to additional services in that language or any language other than English. If any forms are issued by the Federal Government in a language other than English (or such forms are completed in a language other than English), the English language version of the form is the sole authority for all legal purposes.'.

    (b) Conforming Amendment- The table of chapters for title 4, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

    161'.

    SEC. 768. REQUIREMENTS FOR NATURALIZATION.

    (a) Findings- The Senate makes the following findings: Under United States law (8 U.S.C. 1423 (a)), lawful permanent residents of the United States who have immigrated from foreign countries must, among other requirements, demonstrate an understanding of the English language, United States history and Government, to become citizens of the United States. The Department of Homeland Security is currently conducting a review of the testing process used to ensure prospective United States citizens demonstrate said knowledge of the English language and United States history and Government for the purpose of redesigning said test.(b) Definitions- For purposes of this section only, the following words are defined: Key documents- The term `key documents' means the documents that established or explained the foundational principles of democracy in the United States, including the United States Constitution and the amendments to the Constitution (particularly the Bill of Rights), the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers, and the Emancipation Proclamation. Key events- The term `key events' means the critical turning points in the history of the United States (including the American Revolution, the Civil War, the world wars of the twentieth century, the civil rights movement, and the major court decisions and legislation) that contributed to extending the promise of democracy in American life. Key ideas- The term `key ideas' means the ideas that shaped the democratic institutions and heritage of the United States, including the notion of equal justice under the law, freedom, individualism, human rights, and a belief in progress.(4) Key persons- The term `key persons' means the men and women who led the United States as founding fathers, elected officials, scientists, inventors, pioneers, advocates of equal rights, entrepreneurs, and artists.(c) Goals for Citizenship test Redesign- The Department of Homeland Security shall establish as goals of the testing process designed to comply with provisions of (8 U.S.C. 1423 (a)) that prospective citizens--(1) demonstrate a sufficient understanding of the English language for usage in everyday life;(2) demonstrate an understanding of American common values and traditions, including the principles of the Constitution of the United States, the Pledge of Allegiance, respect for the flag of the United States, the National Anthem, and voting in public elections;(3) demonstrate an understanding of the history of the United States, including the key events, key persons, key ideas, and key documents that shaped the institutions and democratic heritage of the United States;(4) demonstrate an attachment to the principles of the Constitution of the United States and the well being and happiness of the people of the United States; and(5) demonstrate an understanding of the rights and responsibilities of citizenship in the United States.(d) Implementation- The Secretary of Homeland Security shall implement changes to the testing process designed to ensure compliance with (8 U.S.C. 1423 (a)) not later than January 1, 2008.

    SEC. 769. DECLARATION OF ENGLISH.

    English is the common and unifying language of the United States that helps provide unity for the people of the United States.

    SEC. 770. PRESERVING AND ENHANCING THE ROLE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

    The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the common and unifying language of America. Nothing herein shall diminish or expand any existing rights under the law of the United States relative to services or materials provided by the Government of the United States in any language other than English.For the purposes of this section, law is defined as including provisions of the United States Code and the United States Constitution, controlling judicial decisions, regulations, and controlling Presidential Executive Orders.(a) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- The table of chapters for title 4, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end Language of Government of the United States.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  15. #29
    Member Array r0rtiz's Avatar
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    This thread reminds me of a funny story at my insurance office the other day. I have included an excerpt from my jourmal:

    I was meeting with a client today when Janelle sent me an instant message that Marisela Gomez was on the phone and she needed to talk to me urgently. Apparently Marisela was pulled over for speeding and she was calling the office to ask me to send her a Spanish speaking cop. Janelle told her that I was unavailable and she became very irate and yelled that she had an emergency and urgently needed me. I am not sure what she thought that I could do to help. Janelle gave her the telephone number to Ontario P.D. so that she could request a Spanish speaking officer, but told her that she should just accept the ticket and then fight it in court and they would provide a Spanish interpreter.

    At this point in the conversation Marisela stopped talking to Janelle, but her phone was still on and Janelle was able to hear the rest of the conversation between the cop and Marisela. WOW! I wish that I had our calls recorded because I would love to replay this one or set it as my cell phone ring tone. It looks like Marisela screamed at the cop that she wanted to speak to somebody in Spanish and she refused to sign the speeding ticket. The cop told her that he did not speak Spanish and that he had another important call to get to. She was adamant about not signing the ticket and became more agitated as the cop became more furious. The cop screamed at her to sign the ticker or he would take her to jail and after threatening her 3 times actually said: “That’s it! You’re coming with me!”

    However, it appears that he had flagged down some Latino looking dude that spoke Spanish and had him help translate because now Janelle heard three people yelling while the call was still connected. The cop is telling the bystander to tell Marisela to sign the ticket or she is going to jail, Marisela is screaming about not signing anything that isn’t in Spanish and the Latino guy is yelling, “Señora, señora…cállate por favor y firma!” Then the cop starts yelling, “I don’t speak Spanish lady! Please Firma, Firma, Firma!” All of the sudden the line went dead…

    I have no idea if Marisela will spend the night in West Valley Detention Center or if she finally signed the ticket. There are a lot of things that ran through my mind. I am flabbergasted that she had the audacity to call me and ask me to get her a Spanish speaking cop, but even more astounded that she may have gone to jail for being a stubborn ass who felt entitled to an interpreter after breaking law in a country where she has refused to learn the language. In the end I couldn’t help but “LOL”. ;-)
    "Surely the preservation and enjoyment of the freedoms vouchsafed to us by the Constitution of the United States will require eternal vigilance even to the guarding of it with our lives. We must ever keep faith with our founding fathers by keeping faith with our Constitution."

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    Not silly fact try and stage a protest in Mexico and see where it lands you... don't think so go try it I'll pay for your ticket, but not legal fees.....

    Didn't say harm, said offended, and yes the larger cities such as Chicago, LA, NY, have ethnic only radio and TV stations, you can find them on cable... and their population density promotes such efforts, but not in this part of the country.
    I have been in Walmarts that I felt like I was in Mexico were the wife N I were the only gringos in the joint, real good idea to have lots of Spanish speaking materials there, go into walmart here and you may actually see one family group, buy a TV, Radio, window fan, laptop and you will find directions in German, French, Italian, English, Spanish, and 2 or 3 others that I have no idea what they are, that is just good thought process, but not when they target an area like this with maybe a .02% Hispanic population....

    as for English not being official not sure if this ever made it out of committee but....
    Bill Text
    Too bad that you don't like businesses marketing to Spanish-speakers. It's pretty rough when you actually come face to face with free enterprise, isn't it? You might as well get over your hurt feelings, or pick English-language-only businesses to patronize. As long as it makes economic sense, businesses will conduct marketing campaigns in any manner in which they see fit, targeting segments of the population where they can make money. This is as it should be.

    You've once again managed to obscure your own stated reason for being offended.

    You started out by claiming that you were offended by a piece of junk mail, and then made the absurd, unsupported claim that you'd be arrested if you made a request for English-language junk mail in Mexico. Most companies would probably fall all over themselves to provide it to you. There's lot's of English-language marketing in Mexico, catering to a sizable English-speaking population. In fact, I've seen lots of English language marketing in most of the other countries I've visited. Should the citizens of Brussels be offended by that?

    As regards an official national language, it's not even germane to the context of your offense, because companies could still send you Spanish-language junk mail even if there were such a law! Once again, you show that you just don't really like the idea of people who speak Spanish being a visible part of "your" United States.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

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