Court allows agents to secretly put GPS trackers on cars

Court allows agents to secretly put GPS trackers on cars

This is a discussion on Court allows agents to secretly put GPS trackers on cars within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I'm slightly concerned by this, as well anyone should if you think about it carefully. I'd like to know what the court says is the ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Court allows agents to secretly put GPS trackers on cars

    I'm slightly concerned by this, as well anyone should if you think about it carefully. I'd like to know what the court says is the limit.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/27/...ex.html?hpt=T2
    "They went onto the property several times in the middle of the night without his knowledge and without his permission," said his lawyer, Harrison Latto.
    Latto says the Ninth Circuit decision means law enforcement can place trackers on cars, without seeking a court's permission, in the nine western states the California-based circuit covers.
    So what about long driveways that traverse property and wrap around to right behind a house or a car parked inside a closed garage bay? If the agents can legally trespass/traverse your property to surreptitiously attach a tracking device to your vehicle(private property) while it's parked on PRIVATE PROPERTY, what's to stop them from just breaking into a closed and ATTACHED garage to do the same, and thereby compromising your right to privacy, security etc...

    What say the LEO's on board(and anyone else I guess)...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Its my understanding that they cannot go into a closed garage, but I could be wrong. I know they can enter carports, though.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    I'm slightly concerned by this, as well anyone should if you think about it carefully. I'd like to know what the court says is the limit.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/27/...ex.html?hpt=T2



    So what about long driveways that traverse property and wrap around to right behind a house or a car parked inside a closed garage bay? If the agents can legally trespass/traverse your property to surreptitiously attach a tracking device to your vehicle(private property) while it's parked on PRIVATE PROPERTY, what's to stop them from just breaking into a closed and ATTACHED garage to do the same, and thereby compromising your right to privacy, security etc...

    What say the LEO's on board(and anyone else I guess)...
    Breaking into a locked structure without a warrant is called burglary,the Court has not given them permission to commit a felony,only if the car is accessible,they will just rfollow you to a parking lot and after you leave the car attach a magnetically held device to an inconspicuous place
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    What's wrong with requiring law enforcement to get a warrant for this?

    Now I'm wondering what the law is for non-LEO. Can someone put one of these on my car? Can I put one of these on a LEO's car?
    We're all in favor of reducing violent crime. It's just that pro-gunners have a method that is proven effective. Anti-gunners don't.
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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    You know, now that I think about it... I don't care if anyone, LEO or not, puts a GPS on my car. I don't care; I have nothing to hide. However, if they put a GPS on my boat to discover my favorite fishing hole or on my girlfriend's truck to discover my hunting spot, blood will flow. I'm a Cajun; we kinda funny like that.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

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    Well, the big issue I have with it is the entering of private property to install the tracker. Since LEOs can already follow, photograph, etc any one (or any vehicle) while they are on public property without a warrant, I think it would eliminate much of the legal grey area if this type of warantless surveillance was initiated (i.e. the device installed) while the vehicle is in a public area with no expectation of privacy. Follow the car to Wal-Mart, put the tracker on then, much more legally justified, IMO.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Member Array redfish443's Avatar
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    I don't think I like that all that much....you need a warrant to wiretap a phone, your personal vehicle should be considered as part of your "household" I would think and should need a court order to "invade" your personal home or vehicle.
    Granted, most of us have no reason to fear that because we're law abiding but considering the screw ups of some LEO's you could wrongly be considered and not know about it.
    Gonna have to think this one over a bit but my gut impression is that it should not be allowed without a court order....Next thing you know they will put a tracking device in every car sold. It comes to mind that an aftermarket 'bug detector" might be an answer, you could sweep your vehicle periodically to check for bugs....I don't like even the sound of that scenario!

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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfish443 View Post
    Next thing you know they will put a tracking device in every car sold. It comes to mind that an aftermarket 'bug detector" might be an answer, you could sweep your vehicle periodically to check for bugs....I don't like even the sound of that scenario!
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    So let me see, if they can sneak over to your car and hide a GPS, why can't they walk up to the car and put a political bumper sticker on it? Its the same principle. Messing with someone's property without permission or appropriate due process.

    Coder in post #5 asked a cogent question. If a non-LEO did that to someone they'd likely be charged with criminal mischief or similar. Heck, there is always something that can be found to fit the act.

    As for the war on drugs. Joke. Our City just outlawed K2 and Salvia (sp?), neither of which are illegal either Federally or in the State. The county can't do likewise, so all that will happen is the kids will go out to the country, more young people will get misdemeanor convictions, and the traffic will be driven underground. One of the council members pontificated on how
    it should all be legalized, and then voted to make possession of these illegal because the police chief asked for that action. I'd better not say more because my blood is still boiling from last night's fiasco at city hall.

  10. #10
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    I've done a lot of these when working in narc task forces; No, no warrant is needed when placing a tracking unit on a car parked in an area normally accessable to the public; private property or not, its does not matter.... but it is a good idea to secure one (warrant) anyway. You must be able to show why and how you came to the conclusion that the particular vehicle needed to be tracked otherwise you have opened a door for all sorts of issues, so it is L.E.'s best interest to do so early on and be documented.


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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Well, the big issue I have with it is the entering of private property to install the tracker. Since LEOs can already follow, photograph, etc any one (or any vehicle) while they are on public property without a warrant, I think it would eliminate much of the legal grey area if this type of warantless surveillance was initiated (i.e. the device installed) while the vehicle is in a public area with no expectation of privacy. Follow the car to Wal-Mart, put the tracker on then, much more legally justified, IMO.
    Yeah that's more along the lines of what I was getting at. I can't see the justification for entering/trespassing private property for the application of the device. Public property is a whole different animal.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Yeah that's more along the lines of what I was getting at. I can't see the justification for entering/trespassing private property for the application of the device. Public property is a whole different animal.
    Well, as SIXTO said (and the article mentions), private property with no fence, no signage, no overt means of keeping people out or warning people that they aren't welcome...this is publically accessible property and doesn't convey the same protections as does a home, a yard surrounded by a privacy fence, etc.

    I still think that a warrant should be required if you cross the threshold of private property, but I take a fairly restrictive view on this sort of thing - as much as I don't like filling out warrant applications, they are the backbone of our system. On truly public land, however, caveat emptor.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  13. #13
    Member Array ThePeaceKeeper's Avatar
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    The funny thing is if you find one on your car and throw it away will they charge you with a crime?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    I hope the USSC overturns this. I agree that LE should be able to use GPS to track suspects. However there should be some oversight on the use of them.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeaceKeeper View Post
    The funny thing is if you find one on your car and throw it away will they charge you with a crime?
    I'm thinking coast to coast long haul trucker
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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