This could be a wedge re: “zero tolerance” discipline

This could be a wedge re: “zero tolerance” discipline

This is a discussion on This could be a wedge re: “zero tolerance” discipline within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; If “zero tolerance” discipline for actual fistfight at their high school (however brief) is out, might not a young kid bring a plastic toy gun ...

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Thread: This could be a wedge re: “zero tolerance” discipline

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up This could be a wedge re: “zero tolerance” discipline

    If “zero tolerance” discipline for actual fistfight at their high school (however brief) is out, might not a young kid bring a plastic toy gun to school be reconsidered.

    Hopefully, sanity might spread.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/us...er=rss&emc=rss

    In a ruling that puts new restraints on get-tough “zero tolerance” discipline, the North Carolina Supreme Court ruled Friday that schools must provide strong reasons for denying alternative schooling or tutoring to students after they are suspended for misbehavior.
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    There will be no sanity. People who can't distinguish between a real gun and a toy gun and thus are willing to punish
    a young kiddo with a long suspension are simply stupid or insane.

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    Good for slapping down some of the zero sense policies. I would be curious to know their history and whether that played into not allowing them into the alt school. I've worked with kids like this. That is very unlikely to be their first rodeo, so to speak.
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    ... the North Carolina Supreme Court ruled Friday that schools must provide strong reasons for denying alternative schooling or tutoring to students after they are suspended for misbehavior.
    Which implies the Zero-Tolerance pukes have been able to thwack students with zero to no reasoning, up to now.

    Interesting. I wonder ... if provision of education for youths is in a state's constitution, what would be the reasoning behind allowing a school district via a regulation or policy to circumvent the state constitution in order to deny education based on behavior its admins don't like?
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    We will have no sanity in our schools as long as the NEA zealots and the NFT are running them.
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    I have not said anything about my recent job change from teaching to admin for this school year. I believe that there are certain areas where "0" or "very little tolerance" has its place, drugs and weapons (not talk, pictures, or toy soldiers). That said, rules are meant to establish order and safety, but there are always 'gray areas' and 'background information' that comes into play with my decisions. I am certainly NOT your typical school administrator, but in a rural Southern area, we tend to view things in a much more conservative way, and real justice/fairness can take many forms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I have not said anything about my recent job change from teaching to admin for this school year. I believe that there are certain areas where "0" or "very little tolerance" has its place, drugs and weapons (not talk, pictures, or toy soldiers). That said, rules are meant to establish order and safety, but there are always 'gray areas' and 'background information' that comes into play with my decisions. I am certainly NOT your typical school administrator, but in a rural Southern area, we tend to view things in a much more conservative way, and real justice/fairness can take many forms.
    Not only must punishment fit the crime, it must be age appropriate. A 6 year old with a toy gun deserves little if anything more than removal of the toy and an admonishment to not bring it to school again. Adults who go beyond that aren't adult at all.

    The "old geometry teacher" taught us that things equal to the same or equal things are equal to each other. A toy gun is not equal to a gun.

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    One also has to ask what is wrong at home that junior is acting out at school.

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    It's amazing how far we've come. I remember when I was in 8th grade I let my teacher borrow my pocket knife with the 4" blade. She used it and handed it back. I even wore my buck knife in the leather case a few times in grade school. Now kids are getting kicked out of school for toy guns. Am I that old?
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    Zero Tolerance = Zero Intelligence!
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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There will be no sanity. People who can't distinguish between a real gun and a toy gun and thus are willing to punish
    a young kiddo with a long suspension are simply stupid or insane.
    I don't think it has anything to do with being able to distinguish toys from the real deal. It has more to do with conditioning future responses.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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    Gosh, back in my shool daze... if you got suspended, you got suspended... no help, no "alternative" school... if your suspension came on finals week... you missed finals and might not have passed that grade...

    Zero tolerance? You can't bring guns to school, you can't fight in school... but if you do, we will give you make up time for your suspension, or give you "in school suspension." That's not zero tolerance, and it teaches that "crime" does indeed "pay" the student gets to "act out" doesn't have to attend class, and makes up all the work... stupid.

    back in the day, one of my kids was assaulted in school, in the vice principal's office with the vice principal, the assaulter, my kid, my wife, and the SO of the assaulter's momma all in the room... assaulter picks up a folding metal chair, swings it at my kid (fortunately misses)... who gets suspended? the assaulter for three days... in school suspension... who gets kicked out of the school? My kid.

    Now, I take this to the board of education... this is what I learn... My kid is not kicked out of district schools... only out of the "attendance center" she was going to at the time she was assaulted.. she could go to one of the other "attendance centers" in the district...

    Your child's school is not a school at all... it is an "attendance center." And based on the level of education I see in the UTES (thru highscool and college even) of today, "attendance center" is pretty accurate... All they gotta do is show up. we'll graduate 'em and send 'em on to higher edumication, if you can afford it, and they wanna go.

    Now, you've got me started... don't do that...

    If I had it to do over again, I would have home schooled.... Our youth are not being educated in public schools today. (yes, there are exceptions, but they are getting rarer with every passing year).
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    I don't think it has anything to do with being able to distinguish toys from the real deal. It has more to do with conditioning future responses.
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