Security Guard rules

Security Guard rules

This is a discussion on Security Guard rules within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; So... I'm looking to hear from all the Security Guards on the board as to your states rules/regulations as to what you can/can't do in ...

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Thread: Security Guard rules

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Security Guard rules

    So... I'm looking to hear from all the Security Guards on the board as to your states rules/regulations as to what you can/can't do in regards to the laying of hands on a customer in your stores as well as whether or not your state lists Security Guards as Sworn Peace Officers with full powers of arrest or not.

    Let er rip...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    When I was a Commissioned Security guard 25-30 yrs. ago (in Texas) we were told to run away if we could, rather than pull out our weapon......I did not work at "retail" establishments though.
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

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    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

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    Ex Member Array jaredpotts's Avatar
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    Okay so this thread is a response to another thread and here is the background it. I posted two stories in the "strangest thing someone has done in your custody" thread. In the stories I talk about going hands on with the two people I was detaining.

    Packinnova then said "Clearly I don't know the law in Washington, but if you're not careful you're going to get dead real quick. Anyone other than an authorized LEO lays hands on me or mine for any reason/suspicion other than to render first aid and they're going to be a vegetable in short order."

    I then replied with "This thread is not about the discussion of various state laws, but since you brought it up I will be glad to educate you. As loss Prevention I have the right and authority to go hands on whether it be for my safety as in both the stories above of if a shoplifter attempts to flee. I am assuming you meant you would draw your weapon since this is a concealed carry forum. Let me advise you strongly to never pull a weapon on a security officer for numerous reasons. If I get a weapon drawn on me I will calmly back away and let the person leave knowing my cameraman is tracking him and getting a plate number or at least a direction of travel, if someone want to turn simple shoplift into armed robbery thats ok with me. Also most time LP goes out they have two people one to contact and one to stand by in case SHTF, a lot of LP are armed and if you draw you will be dead before your weapon gets all the way out of its holster. In my state as well as in many other states merely placing hands on LP or security is a felony. I am assuming you are not an active shoplifter and just some dude who likes to put his to cents in two try to make himself sound smart and dog on security guards, so really this does not apply to you."

    packinnova then said "Assumptions are the mother of all foul-ups friend. No one said anything about shooting anyone and this isn't the concealed carry thread. My point to your response was to the effect of anyone not easily recognizable and identifiable IMMEDIATELY as a DULY SWORN and AUTHORIZED LEO that lays hands on me or mine will be dealt with swiftly and as harshly as necessary to remove said hands.

    ...and put your ruler back in your pocket.

    Reading numerous statements in the WA code at apps.leg.wa.gov would lead one to believe that Security Guards ARE NOT sworn peace officers with full powers of arrest in WA state. This one's a real gem:
    18.170.170
    Unprofessional conduct.

    (8) Making any statement that would reasonably cause another person to believe that the private security guard is a sworn peace officer;
    Allrighty...realizing that I've just drifted this thread even further...we're getting way off topic here so I've started a new thread.
    If you want to continue this whizzing match in public without derailing the original thread any further:
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...59#post1785859"


    Okay so now that every one will know what the back story is.

    I never said nor implied i had any sort of police powers, all i said was i have the right and authority to use force if need be. I could sit here and look up the exact RCW or WAC code but really I do not care that much. What i will tell you is I have been in the Security and LP field for a few years now and have had countless hands on incidents, all times the person gets booked on either felony assualt or robbery and I get a "good job" from PD. As far as the assuming you were referring to using a weapon when talking about making someone "end up dead real quick" I apologize for jumping to conclusions about using weapons while on a forum about carrying and using weapons. If you really believe that security does not have the right to use force I do believe you may be suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome. I mean seriously dude you have to come into a thread that is meant to be lighthearted and fun and put in your "im so big and bad I'll kill a security guard if he touches me" grow up dude. You are the kind of person that makes most of these types of forums the garbage they are.

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    Ex Member Array jaredpotts's Avatar
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    I forgot to address the fact of not having police arrest powers. you are right I do not have the right to arrest someone. I have the right to detain for the purpose of conducting a shoplift investigation and or hold until PD arrives. So no I do not have arrest powers but once again I never said I did. I have the same right to make a citizens arrest as all people do its just beefed up a little bit due to being in Loss Prevention. All citizens have the right to detain someone who has committed a crime in their presence. As far as the "beefed up citizens arrest" the reason I say that is when I detain a person if they have ID and no warrants and its under the felony limit no Police is ever involved. I fill out all my paperwork and send it in to the city attorney who then sends out a summons. Also I can write JCRs (the equivalent to a citation for juveniles) on underage smoking, or tobacco possession on my property. If someone places hands on me while I am acting in the scope of my employment it is Assault 3rd which is a felony and is in layman's terms assault on a person of authority(LE, Fire, EMS, security, etc).

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    N Mi you can only observe, you cannot lay hands on anyone, you cannot arrest anyone, your only authority is any you can BS with your uniform, your job function is to observe and report, but there are a licensed few that have jobs such as guarding nuke plants, but that is a whole different ball game.....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I am not a security officer.
    I have to state that up front because here in Texas it is a misdemeanor to impersonate a security officer!
    Texas Statutes - Section 1702.3875: IMPERSONATING SECURITY OFFICER; OFFENSE
    (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
    (1) impersonates a commissioned or noncommissioned security officer with the intent to induce another to submit to the person's pretended authority or to rely on the person's pretended acts of a security officer; or
    (2) knowingly purports to exercise any function that requires registration as a noncommissioned security officer or a security officer commission.
    (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    That being clearly stated, I am curious why anyone believes one must be a commisioned peace officer to perform an arrest. I am not familiar with the particulars of Virgina law on the subject but that just isn't the case in many places. That being said I will rattle off a couple I am familiar with.
    In Texas:
    Texas Statutes - Article 2.12: WHO ARE PEACE OFFICERS
    The following are peace officers:

    (1) sheriffs, their deputies, and those reserve deputies who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

    (2) constables, deputy constables, and those reserve deputy constables who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;
    Long list here
    (13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security officers;

    (14) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers by the comptroller;
    Blah blah
    (24) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers under Chapter 466, Government Code;
    So there are some out there that are peace officers in Texas. And.....
    Texas Statutes - Article 2.13: DUTIES AND POWERS
    blah blah blah
    (4) arrest offenders without warrant in every case where the officer is authorized by law, in order that they may be taken before the proper magistrate or court and be tried.
    So you go up against the wrong security officer down here and you could find yourself in a whole lot of trouble.
    But even those that only have the "powers" of Joe the Plumber can arrest in certain circumstances:
    Texas Statutes - Article 14.01: OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW
    (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
    So, depending on what the specific offense is, the guy working the drive through at McDonalds can legally arrest you. As far as what force they can use:
    Texas Statutes - Section 9.51: ARREST AND SEARCH
    Blah blah
    (b) A person other than a peace officer (or one acting at his direction) is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in making a lawful arrest, or to prevent or assist in preventing escape after lawful arrest if, before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to and the reason for the arrest or reasonably believes his purpose and the reason are already known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.
    So, if you resist a lawful arrest you might get yourself a good beat down for your efforts. Get all nice and busted up for your mug shot!

    In Maryland you need to be aware of the Public Safety Article, Title 3 Law Enforcement Subtitle 3 Special Police Officers:
    3-303. Entities authorized to apply for appointment of special police officers; qualifications of applicants.
    (a) Entities authorized to apply for appointment of special police officers.- The following entities may apply for the appointment of special police officers for the following purposes:
    (1) a municipal corporation, county, or other governmental body of the State, in order to protect property owned, leased, or regularly used by the governmental body or any of its units;
    (2) another state, or subdivision or unit of another state, that has an interest in property located wholly or partly in this State, in order to protect the property;
    (3) a college, university, or public school system in the State, in order to protect its property or students; or
    (4) a person that exists and functions for a legal business purpose, in order to protect its business property.
    and their authority:
    3-307. Scope of commission.
    (a) In general.- Each special police officer shall protect and preserve peace and good order on the property described in the application for the commission.
    (b) Powers of special police officer.- A special police officer may:
    (1) arrest individuals who trespass or commit offenses on the property described in the application for the commission;
    (2) exercise the powers of a police officer on the property described in the application for the commission;
    (3) exercise the powers of a police officer in a county or municipal corporation of the State in connection with the care, custody, and protection of other property of the entity that requested the appointment of the special police officer or other property, real or personal, for which the entity has assumed an obligation to maintain or protect; and
    (4) direct and control traffic on public highways and roads in the immediate vicinity of the property described in the application for the commission in order to facilitate the orderly movement of traffic to and from the property, if the Secretary approves of this activity in advance.
    (c) Limitations as to vehicle laws.-
    (1) A special police officer may make an arrest or issue a traffic citation for a violation of the Maryland Vehicle Law or any other State or local traffic law or regulation only if the special police officer:
    (i) has a probationary or permanent appointment as a security officer or is a member of an industrial police force; and
    (ii) has completed the basic training course for police officers as established by the Police Training Commission in accordance with Subtitle 2 of this title.
    (2) A special police officer may exercise the power described in paragraph (1) of this subsection only on the property of the special police officer's employer as described in the application for the commission, unless the special police officer is in active pursuit for the purpose of immediate apprehension.
    So if you run they can keep chasing you and you can get all the fleeing and eluding stuff that normally goes with traffic pursuits on top of your other charges.
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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    This is going to go well.....

    Mall ninja unite!
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    Yep, what SIGGUY said.

    You know when I was home I happened on a new reality show called "Mall Cops". They actually followed the guys around in the mall while they were wearing their Ninja duty belts with everything except a firearm watching them stop 13 year olds from wearing hoodies in the mall. I thought I would lose it right there.

    Not knocking security guys they perform a function, many do consider themselves LE and some have powers of arrest and so on but I don't see this thread lasting long as it will/has turned into a pee pee contest already.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Packinnova, I just found this in the code of Virginia:
    9.1-146. Limitation on powers of registered armed security officers.

    Compliance with the provisions of this article shall not itself authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or exercise any powers of a conservator of the peace. A registered armed security officer of a private security services business while at a location which the business is contracted to protect shall have the power to effect an arrest for an offense occurring (i) in his presence on such premises or (ii) in the presence of a merchant, agent, or employee of the merchant the private security business has contracted to protect, if the merchant, agent, or employee had probable cause to believe that the person arrested had shoplifted or committed willful concealment of goods as contemplated by 18.2-106. For the purposes of 19.2-74, a registered armed security officer of a private security services business shall be considered an arresting officer.
    So it looks like in Virginia if Paul Blart is wearing a gun he has statutory arrest powers.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Security officers having arrest powers are nothing new. However, when so granted, the sworn power I very limited in it's scope, and usually limited to the property the security guard works, and the enforcement for that particular establishment. Sworn status has to be granted from some municipal or higher authority, and that authority must be accountable for the actions of those it grants the status, hence these sworn appointments are very limited in their scope of power, and nowhere near the level of the sworn LE employeed by a goverment body.

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredpotts View Post
    I mean seriously dude you have to come into a thread that is meant to be lighthearted and fun and put in your "im so big and bad I'll kill a security guard if he touches me" grow up dude. You are the kind of person that makes most of these types of forums the garbage they are.
    It has nothing to do with being big or bad or whatever. Clearly you've missed the point. The fact is, I don't know Paul Blart from Adam and therein lies the problem. It's kinda hard to accurately impersonate a legitimate peace officer, not so much a security guard considering you can basically buy a full uniform/kit online and standards vary so far between states that it's not even funny. This among many other potential issues. Not to mention I've seen far too many "Security Guards" that aren't more than a week older than 18 that have no business being "Security Guards" and their actions and maturity level while working in their establishments show it.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Packinnova, I just found this in the code of Virginia:

    So it looks like in Virginia if Paul Blart is wearing a gun he has statutory arrest powers.
    Nope, Paul would be out of luck. Read the Code again. Paul worked for a mall as in-house security.

    The Code grants arrest authority if all of the following conditions are met:

    1. Certified Armed Security Officer (note weapon not required, just the Certification).

    2. Employed by a Private Security Agency.

    3. On a property he is contracted to protect.


    I have been around and around this issue on open carry's forum. There is one guy that insists the Code only allows SOs to arrest for shoplifting, however I feel that is a misreading of the Code. Section (i) allows for any offense committed in the presence of the SO, in other words SOs cannot investigate a crime and make an arrest based on evidence, not can they serve warrants; Section (ii) allows the SO to effect an arrest if an employee witnesses a shoplifting.

    Note in VA that shoplifting encompasses two separate Codes, one is larceny and the other is concealment of merchandise. Both are Class 1 Misdemeanors. The Concealment Code states that concealment of merchandise is Prima Facie evidence. In other words, if the SO sees you hide the merchandise so that the merchant is no longer able to sell it (paraphrased), then you pretty much have no defense. The Code does not require you to hide it on your person. Technically, if you place an item under a shelf where it can not be sold, you have committed the crime.

    I was an armed SO for three years in VA. I made over 200 arrests, about half of those were for shoplifting. The rest encompassed other crimes, such as trespassing, assault, concealed weapons, resisting arrest, vandalism, petit larceny, etc. I had a near 100 % conviction rate and never did anyone question my arrest authority. My SO training was that I had arrest powers. SOs making arrests is a common practice in VA. Some companies restrict or ban their employees from making arrests but it is right there in the Code. The companies I worked for specialized in high crime areas, so we had a lot more leeway. We weren't doing doorman duty, we were out there getting dirty to protect our contracts. We got shot at and occasionally an SO would get shot, stabbed or otherwise injured, a couple of our SOs were in good shoots, and we had lots of fights with shoplifters who resisted arrest.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    So paramedic does that mean for a security officer to have arrest powers in Virginia they must be employed by one company and contracted out to another?
    I know in some states some large companies ( IBM for example) have their own internal security units that are state licensed. To maintain the license they have to have as a manager someone who meets the licensing requirements to open their own company.
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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    I'll just say that I know nothing about security guard laws here in OK. I do, however, know that every citizen of this state has powers of arrest in certain circumstances. Basically, if I see someone commit - I believe any - misdemeanor or felony, I am legally allowed to detain that person using what force is reasonable and necessary.

    So security guards, beings citizens of the great (and empty) state of Oklahoma, have the power of arrest. At that point it comes down to company policy.
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