When does America stop feeling like America?

This is a discussion on When does America stop feeling like America? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; It's not a gun thing or a TSA thing. It's a freedom thing. http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/11/2...ex.html?hpt=C2 ask yourself how you would feel if you lived in a ...

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Thread: When does America stop feeling like America?

  1. #1
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    When does America stop feeling like America?

    It's not a gun thing or a TSA thing. It's a freedom thing.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/11/2...ex.html?hpt=C2

    ask yourself how you would feel if you lived in a country like this:
    You can walk into any airport, with or without a ticket, and wander unimpeded right up to a boarding gate. You don't have to surreptitiously slip past a security checkpoint, because there are no security checkpoints.
    If you don't have a driver's license or a photo ID card with you, that doesn't matter; no one will request to see one.
    If you are carrying a loaded gun in your pocket or underneath your jacket, no one will know. In fact, if you do have a valid ticket, there will be nothing to prevent you from boarding a flight while armed to the teeth with concealed weaponry.
    The atmosphere at the airport is as free-and-easy as in a public park. The official assumption is that the people around you pose no threat; from the moment you walk through the front doors of the airport until the moment you step onto the plane, not a soul will stop you or ask you a question.
    Would you feel safe? Would you want to live in such a country?
    We're all in favor of reducing violent crime. It's just that pro-gunners have a method that is proven effective. Anti-gunners don't.
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    John Moses Browning day is January 24th, 2011

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    Member Array Greg Foster's Avatar
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    I choose Freedom over safety. Giving up Freedom for safety is not what this Republic was founded on.

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    Interview with the TSA chief...this will make you angry. Kudos to the reporter for asking the hard questions and not letting him off the hook.
    http://cnn.com/video/?/video/politic...intv.11.21.cnn
    We're all in favor of reducing violent crime. It's just that pro-gunners have a method that is proven effective. Anti-gunners don't.
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    John Moses Browning day is January 24th, 2011

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    Yes, it is a freedom thing. But it is more. It is a thing in which a stubborn official, Pistole, is unwilling to do what he knows is right and quite willing to what is wrong, and his bosses don't fire him. His interviews on tv reveal a very disingenuous individual and his advice to his superiors (who sadly took it all) that there are no options is clearly wrong. But even if there were NO options, really and truly, it is still "a freedom thing." A freedom thing about observing both letter and intent of 4A.

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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    It stops feeling like America right around the time some TSA goon rams his hands down your pants and starts squeezing your genitals.

    About the time your child is crying and calling for your to help her, because this is definitely "stranger bad-touch" and another agent grabs you and says, "if you interfere with the screening, you'll be arrested."

    And guys, for the record, this is not about Obama, or Democrats, or the DoJ, or Homeland Security, or liberals and conservatives - this isn't a political issue, this is about acknowledging to ourselves that the collective national flip-out after 9/11 has come to an end. What we traded off in the interests of "safety" turned out to be a bad deal.

    It won't be easy, and it will take some energy, money and activism, but a lot of that package has to be undone and our liberty restored. This means rolling back Patriot Act, shutting down TIA, and demanding that they stop treating all Americans as if we're suspected terrorists until proven otherwise.

    Yeah, what about another terror attack? Bring it on, dudes. You can kill a few of us, but you can't kill our spirit.

    Only we can do that to ourselves.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    After 9-11 people demanded that our airports be safe. Didn't they? They wanted protection against terrorists. The government enacted new measures of protection every time there was an attempt of terror. The 'Christmas day bomber' attempt brought us to the level of 'pat down' security we are now facing.

    Now it seems, people are complaining that there is to much security and that we are losing our freedoms.
    There is no question that terrorism changed our security measures. Something had to be done and the public demanded it be done. Now they don't like the end result. Damned if you do...damned if you don't.

    BTW... I fly fairly frequently and have found the new measures to be a very minor inconvenience in order to insure safety. I do NOT feel like I've lost any of my rights to freedom. I can still go and fly anywhere I want, so I really haven't lost anything and I'm safer doing it. I would however, eliminate the x-ray/body scan machine as that is invasive and over the top.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    Adopt the Israeli model, and do it now, and it will be more cost effective, more effective, and provide the USA with safer transportation. Fire the TSA from the TOP down, 100% GONE, and start over. TSA is REACTIVE rather than PROACTIVE.

    We pay enough to demand they do it correctly.

    It stops feeling like America right around the time some TSA goon rams his hands down your pants and starts squeezing your genitals.

    About the time your child is crying and calling for your to help her, because this is definitely "stranger bad-touch" and another agent grabs you and says, "if you interfere with the screening, you'll be arrested."
    Do you have a source where this happened? Maybe a wee bit of hyperbole? I don't think this kind of discussion really adds to a worthwhile debate on personal privacy versus public safety? Just asking........

    And, just personally, I find the screens or pat downs boring boring boring and I'd guess the TSA does too, so no, I think a few folks are over-reacting and making it worse for the flying public in the name of "Rights" and the "Constitution". Nobody cares about your body, its shape, or your ego. Get over it. If I just described you, JUST DRIVE and stay off of airplanes.

    Just my $.02, so re-read my first statement. The Israeli's do it correctly, and if the world were flat, we could too. We should demand better. We are paying for it.

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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    It stops feeling like America right around the time some TSA goon rams his hands down your pants and starts squeezing your genitals.
    That is a RIDICULOUS statement.

    It appears you haven't gone through airport security lately. What you describe is nothing near the truth. I have found to TSA to very respectful and VERY careful during the pat down. The news channels try to paint an ugly picture and people like you drink up the cool-aid.

    I bet the child cries like that at the Doctors office also. Give me a break...it's news hype. I bet the kid would be crying even louder if the side of the plane was blown out by some C-4 ignited by some terrorist and was plummeting towards earth.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    Where is the 4A line? How do pregnant and disabled travelers plan to protect their body from harmful radiation and risky separation from prosthetic and assisting devices? Pistole's refusal to answer these questions on behalf of his TSA opens an important session of the court of public opinion.
    More than a few Americans are exercizing their freedom not to travel. Causing our government to violate our rights without rules of restraint is the best example of terrorist victory over our American freedom to convenient air travel. Quite a coup for a couple of inbound foreigners who lack the competence to fire the trigger to their explosive shoes or underwear.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Foster View Post
    I choose Freedom over safety. Giving up Freedom for safety is not what this Republic was founded on.
    I agree.My wife always tells me,' just about every new law,in general,takes away more of our freedom"

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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    It stops feeling like America right around the time some TSA goon rams his hands down your pants and starts squeezing your genitals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    That is a RIDICULOUS statement.

    It appears you haven't gone through airport security lately. What you describe is nothing near the truth. I have found to TSA to very respectful and VERY careful during the pat down. The news channels try to paint an ugly picture and people like you drink up the cool-aid.
    For all of his deafening silence, Pistole gives a nod to the crotch squeeze - albeit from the underside and not the waistband point of entry. And that's close enough to truth for me.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Why does the government insist on pat downs and x-rays when they could do it cheaper and faster with a metal detector and a explosive sniffing dog. Neither the x-ray or pat down would have found the explosives on the underware bomber - a dog would have. Maybe the next step will be to check your body cavities.
    Its a shame that youth is wasted on the young.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Alte View Post
    Why does the government insist on pat downs and x-rays when they could do it cheaper and faster with a metal detector and a explosive sniffing dog.
    ...When there are travellers requesting options.
    Quote Originally Posted by Der Alte View Post
    Neither the x-ray or pat down would have found the explosives on the underware bomber - a dog would have. Maybe the next step will be to check your body cavities.
    Actually, the gloved-fingers-in-the-waistband technique checks for explosive residue on the gloves and would have triggerred the alarm on the underwear (non-)bomber. But, if you're going to redesign travel security at least consider giving free people a choice.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Why does the government insist on pat downs and x-rays when they could do it cheaper and faster with a metal detector and a explosive sniffing dog.
    Exactly.

    What we need is reasonable safety, not absolute, total guarantees of protection. Because you can have the latter, but the cost is too high.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    Safety is an illusion! Nothing is 100% safe no matter how many laws you pass. When does America stop feeling like America? When we actually learn to embrace freedom, personal liberty, and personal responsibility! This TSA stuff is just more of the same ole same ole. An armed society is a polite society and no one is more invested in your personal safety than you are!

    I have learned from experience that a person cannot depend on some state or federal agency to save us from all possible attacks. I trust God foremost for my safety...then myself and my ability...then family friends..and then Law enforcement agencies .
    1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:



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