How to fight dirty and win.

How to fight dirty and win.

This is a discussion on How to fight dirty and win. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Mods: I really don't know where to post this. This is a "copy and paste" email I sent my grown kids, wife, and daughter-in-law. The ...

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    How to fight dirty and win.

    Mods: I really don't know where to post this.

    This is a "copy and paste" email I sent my grown kids, wife, and daughter-in-law. The introduction is mine but the body of content comes from "WikiHow". Even that appears to be a cut and paste as I have seen several renditions of the same article with some add ons. I am not particularly pleased with any of this. Even my vocation might bring into question why I would send this to my children, let alone post it on my favorite forum. But entering my seventh decade I have come to realize that there are pockets of undefinable evil outside my front door with no thought of rationality or compassion.
    Oh, and I am not the least bit interested in this turning into a doctrinal tug-of-war. That's the quickest way to see this thread removed. Each person must come to terms with their own conscience and as callow is this may sound, I'm not interested in you changing my mind.



    HOW TO FIGHT DIRTY AND WIN

    INTRODUCTION - The introduction is mine (Tom’s). The bullets are from “WikiHow”.

    This is a difficult and unpleasant topic and bumps up against my faith. But scripture also indicates that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. I have not found a balance between defending yourself and turning the other cheek. My limited take on this is to endure purposeful insults or even a push or a slap. I also believe there are some believers willing to endure death before raising a hand in defense. I think believers have a responsibility to a) pray offensively as to what God would have you do in the event that you find yourself in harm’s way b) weigh the pros and cons of each action (resist or relinquish) c) decide how you will respond in advance d) a bullet prayer to God for wisdom and protection.
    I like this guys first bullet that says look for any way out of a fight. But if you are blindsided, cornered with little prospect for finding middle ground or if you are sexually assaulted and talking is not going to work then all bets are off. The hardest thing to overcome is what does not come naturally or seem fair. "Fighting fair" is a myth. You fight like your life depends on it and there may be a good chance that is true. I told Ann that if she is ever attacked she should fight for all she is worth. Eyes, nose, ears, throat, and the sweet spot are your first resort and not your last. (End of Introduction)

    • Don’t go looking for fights. Do everything you can to avoid them.
    • Know your own limitations. If you can't go thirty seconds without stopping for breath start working out and getting some endurance training. You need to be able to last a good 3 minutes of solid fighting/grappling/wrestling.
    • Fight like your life depends on it. No one fights to get the other person to submit. You fight to hurt people. Do you want to get hurt or go home safely?
    • Stay on your feet. Unless you’re a cage fighter and you can fight on the ground avoid it. We will touch on this later.
    • Defend your face and body with your arms. Keep your elbows in and your fists near eye level away from your face to block side attacks.
    • Stand with your feet a little wider than shoulder width, strong foot forward and slightly to the outside and weak side to the rear and outside.
    • Slightly bend at the knees and slightly bend forward.
    • If you have exhausted all forms of negotiating and the fight is definitely going to happen move in. Get close to your target. Don’t stand arms width apart. That’s where the punch will hurt the most. Get close. Try this for example. Walk up to a wall, put your fist about 2 inches away and punch the wall. Not bad, didn’t kill you right? Now step back and punch the wall as hard as you can with a full extension of your arm. You didn’t do it, did you? It would have hurt like hell.
    • Grab/bite ears. They come off with a little bit of force. The psychological effect of having an ear ripped off will stop most fights.
    • Jab eyes. If they can't see…you get the point
    • Punch the throat. If you can't breath you can't fight.
    • Don't forget your knees and elbows in close quarters. They may be harder to control and have shorter reach, but they are strong, hard for an opponent to grab, and they pack a lot of force.
    • Hair is pretty much worthless unless they have lots of it. Pull it! There is also a trick you can do using your opponents hair. It works better if they are wearing a ponytail. Grab it and bring their face down to your knee, with much force.
    • Joints. Not the ones you smoke but the ones in your body. If you can break an extremity at the joint you can plan on a fight being over right then and there.
    • Feet. A solid foot stomp onto the top of your opponent’s foot will result in the immediate breaking of bones and you will almost certainly cause their foot to swell to the point of no return.
    • Hands. If you can grab a hand take a hold of it and flip it in a big circle and twist it 180 degrees. Once in that position you can manipulate the arm and break it easily.
    • Collarbones. Your collarbone has the strength of that flute player in the marching band…it's weak. About 7 pounds of pressure will snap a collarbone and the entire arm will drop like a load of potatoes.
    • Ribs. A little tougher to break but when they do they really take the fight out of you.
    • Arms. Try to grab a hold of an arm, when you have it use your forearm or palm to throw a sort of inverted punch. Try to land your blow onto the weaker underside of the arm where your veins and arteries are. If you use your palm keep your fingers pointed up.
    • Mouth. A lot of people like to bite when they fight. Bad call. You can catch any number of diseases. If you should happen to get bit on your fingers you can literally rip the bottom jaw off of an attacker with your own strength. Imagine your fingers are being bitten from the side covering your smallest fingers. Manipulate your whole hand into the attackers mouth (this will work on dogs also) and push your fingers down into the bedding of the tongue. That alone will warrant an attacker to let go. Don’t let them. Dig your fingers under their teeth in the small pocket your tongue hides in. Pull down and to the side. You will notice they forgot about fighting and are desperately trying to get your hand out of their mouth. Often times they will focus both hands on pulling your one hand out. Use your free hand to grab a fist full of testicle or an ear. If you can give sharp jerks in a downward and outside thrust away from their face. The bottom jaw might be able to handle three of those before it unhinges.
    • Neck. Not the best place to attack, but it is a preference from behind. If you can get a hold of the attacker’s neck grab on for dear life and don’t stop squeezing until they pass out.
    • Spine. A mild blow to the base of the back near the belt line will temporarily disable an attacker. A severe blow to the same spot will permanently incapacitate them from that point down on their body.
    • Nose. If you can grab the nose do it. Snap it to the side. Punch it straight into the brain. Don’t worry you won't kill anyone that’s a wives tale. Also a sharp thrust of the palm in a downward motion will have the same effect.
    • If you're grounded, pick up a handful of dirt, sand or gravel and grind it into your attacker's eyes. Act quickly. You won't fight them off for long with only one hand.
    • If you're holding a beverage before the fight occurs and you know that the fight is about to begin take a sip, then spit it into your opponents face to buy some time. The beverage you use will have different effects on the eyes (i.e. if you spit hard liquor into the eyes you will have more time than if you used ordinary water). If you use chewing tobacco the same effect can be achieved by spitting tobacco juice into your opponents eyes.
    • Fight quickly. Fight like your life depends on it. Be aware of your surroundings.
    • Use anything logical as a weapon. (I.e. staplers, rocks, bottles, aerosol deodorants or sprays) They may seem harmless but all can cause severe injury if used properly.
    • Never take a fight outside. This gives the opponent the upper hand to sucker-punch you. If the fight starts there it finishes there.
    • Practice makes perfect. Have a friend get with you. Do not hurt your friend though. ☺
    "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Eccl. 10:2


  2. #2
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    That'll work.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Nice post IMO! Should be a sticky for the text.

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    If your life depends on it and you are the survivor (no one really wins in a fight), it's not fighting dirty, it is surviving. I like how he says to bite off ears, and then a few lines later, says not to bite anything. But a pretty decent list.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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  5. #5
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    Good list.

    As my Karate instructor once said, "Fight to win. If that means using any method necessary, use it. Even if you have to pick up a rock and bash the other one with it, go for it."

    Fighting is all about survival and nothing in a fight is fair. I will use any method that I can to eliminate the threat or to stop the attack, and will have no qualms or regrets.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    I like how he says to bite off ears, and then a few lines later, says not to bite anything. But a pretty decent list.
    I noticed this as well. Oh well.

    Doesn't much matter to me what you call it. Dirty fighting, fighting to win, whatever. The point is that if it comes down to me or them, I will do whatever it takes to make sure I emerge from the heat of battle as the victor.
    My blog

    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I have never understood "dirty fighting" outside of a sports venue.
    The goal in a fight is to accomplish one of two things. The opponent is uable to continue or the opponent has no desire to continue.
    The method that will most likely achieve either one of those goals at a given moment in time, is generally the best one to use.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    While some points are true, most of the list past half way is crap.

    A foot stomp may cause damage, but in shod feet it means nothing. You go ahead and stomp on my feet while I smash your face and head.

    Collarbones. Your collarbone has the strength of that flute player in the marching band…it's weak. About 7 pounds of pressure will snap a collarbone and the entire arm will drop like a load of potatoes.
    If you break a collar bone you just keep on fighting until after everything is over and then it hurts. It's a bad injury to be sure but not a fight stopper.

    Arms. Try to grab a hold of an arm, when you have it use your forearm or palm to throw a sort of inverted punch. Try to land your blow onto the weaker underside of the arm where your veins and arteries are. If you use your palm keep your fingers pointed up.
    What the heck is this? Pure crap.


    I have never EVER heard of someone pulling off a lower jaw. Not with a person or a dog. I have heard about plenty of fingers and ears being bitten off though.

    Spine. A mild blow to the base of the back near the belt line will temporarily disable an attacker. A severe blow to the same spot will permanently incapacitate them from that point down on their body.
    This should read "A mild blow with a hammer...". In real life if you can only hit them in the back then you should hit the kidneys.

    Seriously, this is a few good things mixed with internet crap. For sure fight dirty and go for the eyes and face. Do what you have to do. Bite, gouge, kick...whatever.

    If you want to learn how to fight don't read it on the web, go get some instruction. For most people it's just like a defensive shooting. You need to have your mindset right and be mentally ready to fight. If you do not then you will lose.
    Last edited by atctimmy; December 14th, 2010 at 12:01 AM. Reason: grammar
    I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  9. #9
    kpw
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    Eh...some good, some crap! The foot stomps are funny. They might hurt a bit later but they ain't fight stoppers. Hesitation is a big loser. I've seen more tough guys get their butts kicked while they were still puffing their chest and trying to grow an inch. I don't recall one fight I've been in that lasted more than 20-30 seconds before it went to the ground, usually sooner. If you can't fight on the ground, learn, or get REAL good at stuffing take-downs. Watch out for their friends, especially if your alone. Your almost garuanteed to get a friend or two to jump in when their buddy is getting whooped.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aznav View Post
    Mods: I really don't know where to post this.

    This is a "copy and paste" email I sent my grown kids, wife, and daughter-in-law. The introduction is mine but the body of content comes from "WikiHow". Even that appears to be a cut and paste as I have seen several renditions of the same article with some add ons. I am not particularly pleased with any of this. Even my vocation might bring into question why I would send this to my children, let alone post it on my favorite forum. But entering my seventh decade I have come to realize that there are pockets of undefinable evil outside my front door with no thought of rationality or compassion.
    Oh, and I am not the least bit interested in this turning into a doctrinal tug-of-war. That's the quickest way to see this thread removed. Each person must come to terms with their own conscience and as callow is this may sound, I'm not interested in you changing my mind.



    HOW TO FIGHT DIRTY AND WIN

    INTRODUCTION - The introduction is mine (Tom’s). The bullets are from “WikiHow”.

    This is a difficult and unpleasant topic and bumps up against my faith. But scripture also indicates that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. I have not found a balance between defending yourself and turning the other cheek. My limited take on this is to endure purposeful insults or even a push or a slap. I also believe there are some believers willing to endure death before raising a hand in defense. I think believers have a responsibility to a) pray offensively as to what God would have you do in the event that you find yourself in harm’s way b) weigh the pros and cons of each action (resist or relinquish) c) decide how you will respond in advance d) a bullet prayer to God for wisdom and protection.
    I like this guys first bullet that says look for any way out of a fight. But if you are blindsided, cornered with little prospect for finding middle ground or if you are sexually assaulted and talking is not going to work then all bets are off. The hardest thing to overcome is what does not come naturally or seem fair. "Fighting fair" is a myth. You fight like your life depends on it and there may be a good chance that is true. I told Ann that if she is ever attacked she should fight for all she is worth. Eyes, nose, ears, throat, and the sweet spot are your first resort and not your last. (End of Introduction)

    • Don’t go looking for fights. Do everything you can to avoid them.
    • Know your own limitations. If you can't go thirty seconds without stopping for breath start working out and getting some endurance training. You need to be able to last a good 3 minutes of solid fighting/grappling/wrestling.
    • Fight like your life depends on it. No one fights to get the other person to submit. You fight to hurt people. Do you want to get hurt or go home safely?
    • Stay on your feet. Unless you’re a cage fighter and you can fight on the ground avoid it. We will touch on this later.
    • Defend your face and body with your arms. Keep your elbows in and your fists near eye level away from your face to block side attacks.
    • Stand with your feet a little wider than shoulder width, strong foot forward and slightly to the outside and weak side to the rear and outside.
    • Slightly bend at the knees and slightly bend forward.
    • If you have exhausted all forms of negotiating and the fight is definitely going to happen move in. Get close to your target. Don’t stand arms width apart. That’s where the punch will hurt the most. Get close. Try this for example. Walk up to a wall, put your fist about 2 inches away and punch the wall. Not bad, didn’t kill you right? Now step back and punch the wall as hard as you can with a full extension of your arm. You didn’t do it, did you? It would have hurt like hell.
    • Grab/bite ears. They come off with a little bit of force. The psychological effect of having an ear ripped off will stop most fights.
    • Jab eyes. If they can't see…you get the point
    • Punch the throat. If you can't breath you can't fight.
    • Don't forget your knees and elbows in close quarters. They may be harder to control and have shorter reach, but they are strong, hard for an opponent to grab, and they pack a lot of force.
    • Hair is pretty much worthless unless they have lots of it. Pull it! There is also a trick you can do using your opponents hair. It works better if they are wearing a ponytail. Grab it and bring their face down to your knee, with much force.
    • Joints. Not the ones you smoke but the ones in your body. If you can break an extremity at the joint you can plan on a fight being over right then and there.
    • Feet. A solid foot stomp onto the top of your opponent’s foot will result in the immediate breaking of bones and you will almost certainly cause their foot to swell to the point of no return.
    • Hands. If you can grab a hand take a hold of it and flip it in a big circle and twist it 180 degrees. Once in that position you can manipulate the arm and break it easily.
    • Collarbones. Your collarbone has the strength of that flute player in the marching band…it's weak. About 7 pounds of pressure will snap a collarbone and the entire arm will drop like a load of potatoes.
    • Ribs. A little tougher to break but when they do they really take the fight out of you.
    • Arms. Try to grab a hold of an arm, when you have it use your forearm or palm to throw a sort of inverted punch. Try to land your blow onto the weaker underside of the arm where your veins and arteries are. If you use your palm keep your fingers pointed up.
    • Mouth. A lot of people like to bite when they fight. Bad call. You can catch any number of diseases. If you should happen to get bit on your fingers you can literally rip the bottom jaw off of an attacker with your own strength. Imagine your fingers are being bitten from the side covering your smallest fingers. Manipulate your whole hand into the attackers mouth (this will work on dogs also) and push your fingers down into the bedding of the tongue. That alone will warrant an attacker to let go. Don’t let them. Dig your fingers under their teeth in the small pocket your tongue hides in. Pull down and to the side. You will notice they forgot about fighting and are desperately trying to get your hand out of their mouth. Often times they will focus both hands on pulling your one hand out. Use your free hand to grab a fist full of testicle or an ear. If you can give sharp jerks in a downward and outside thrust away from their face. The bottom jaw might be able to handle three of those before it unhinges.
    • Neck. Not the best place to attack, but it is a preference from behind. If you can get a hold of the attacker’s neck grab on for dear life and don’t stop squeezing until they pass out.
    • Spine. A mild blow to the base of the back near the belt line will temporarily disable an attacker. A severe blow to the same spot will permanently incapacitate them from that point down on their body.
    • Nose. If you can grab the nose do it. Snap it to the side. Punch it straight into the brain. Don’t worry you won't kill anyone that’s a wives tale. Also a sharp thrust of the palm in a downward motion will have the same effect.
    • If you're grounded, pick up a handful of dirt, sand or gravel and grind it into your attacker's eyes. Act quickly. You won't fight them off for long with only one hand.
    • If you're holding a beverage before the fight occurs and you know that the fight is about to begin take a sip, then spit it into your opponents face to buy some time. The beverage you use will have different effects on the eyes (i.e. if you spit hard liquor into the eyes you will have more time than if you used ordinary water). If you use chewing tobacco the same effect can be achieved by spitting tobacco juice into your opponents eyes.
    • Fight quickly. Fight like your life depends on it. Be aware of your surroundings.
    • Use anything logical as a weapon. (I.e. staplers, rocks, bottles, aerosol deodorants or sprays) They may seem harmless but all can cause severe injury if used properly.
    • Never take a fight outside. This gives the opponent the upper hand to sucker-punch you. If the fight starts there it finishes there.
    • Practice makes perfect. Have a friend get with you. Do not hurt your friend though. ☺
    •" Neck. Not the best place to attack, but it is a preference from behind."

    The neck is good if you no the brachial stun.




    "Mouth. A lot of people like to bite when they fight. Bad call. You can catch any number of diseases."
    I took Tai Kwan Do' about 25 years ago. I'll always remember my instructors words on this. "I don't care if it's a hot August day and the guy has been shoveling $h!t for 8 hours, if the only chance of getting away is biting him, I'm gonna bite him."
    If you are fighting, perhaps for your life, you fight as dirty as you have to to get away.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
    Jeff Cooper

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    3 steps to complete domination of an attacker.

    1)Kick/Knee to the testicles
    2)Knee/Kick to the face when he doubles over from the kick to the testicles
    3)Stomp head (Permanent solution, do not advise) or kick ribs/stomach/testicles again/kidneys while on the ground.

    Fight over.

    If you want rules, join a gym, there are never rules in a street fight save one... survive.
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
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  12. #12
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    3 steps to complete domination of an attacker.

    1)Kick/Knee to the testicles
    2)Knee/Kick to the face when he doubles over from the kick to the testicles
    3)Stomp head (Permanent solution, do not advise) or kick ribs/stomach/testicles again/kidneys while on the ground.

    Fight over.

    If you want rules, join a gym, there are never rules in a street fight save one... survive.
    Don't count on it. It has a dramatic effect when the target isn't expecting it but during an adrenaline rush, it can be a little more than an annoyance. I required surgery on the boys after one instance and I'll admit, it was definately disabling but not until way after it was all over. It did not double me over or slow me down in any way. However, it did make me a whole lot angrier than I had been previously.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Don't count on it. It has a dramatic effect when the target isn't expecting it but during an adrenaline rush, it can be a little more than an annoyance. I required surgery on the boys after one instance and I'll admit, it was definately disabling but not until way after it was all over. It did not double me over or slow me down in any way. However, it did make me a whole lot angrier than I had been previously.
    Dually noted, and of course, no plan is fool proof, was more a statement that ending the incident should be as fast and violent as possible.
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
    -Ruger P345; LCP
    -Mossberg 590A1; Model 42
    -Phoenix Arms Raven

  14. #14
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    Dually noted, and of course, no plan is fool proof, was more a statement that ending the incident should be as fast and violent as possible.
    Your right...and I have no problem aiming for the uprights myself, if the opportunity presents itself. Sometimes it does have that effect!
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  15. #15
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    Some good stuff, and some questionable stuff no doubt.

    The bottom line is the premise of the post, which is to fight with an overwhelming violence of action, and attempt to focus your strikes at targets which will be debilitating. And don't stop until the job is finished.

    A kick or a strike to the groin is not always a shot which will connect with the intended target because it is a natural target the attacker will protect so you must be prepared to follow up with something equally devastating.

    As far as poking or jabbing the eyes, (also a target which a person will naturally guard against). And most the time quite effectively. You can't always get into the eyes. One way to overcome that is to "box their ears" by slapping both sides of their head with open palms (painful in and of itself), then latching on to the ears to stabilize the head and prevent movement, and then drive your thumbs into the eyes as hard as you can.

    Another way to attack the eyes is to take your curled fingers and rake them deeply across their tightly clenched eyelids. In this method, you're not poking them in the eye, but instead trying to merely penetrate the eyelids which are clenched shut. If you can break the seal, any raking motion from your fingers and fingernails will likely cause a corneal abrasion which will immediately impair their vision and be extremely painful. If you can't get it done on the first attempt, keep trying as the target presents itself.

    One important thing to understand. The brain can not process more than one stimuli at a time. It can process things very quickly, but it can not process more then one thing at a time. Once you start inflicting serious pain and the brain is responding to that stimulus, it is in chaos and can not process an effective counter attack.

    If you repeatedly attack targets which can break bones, or damage tendons, cause immediate pain and continue to strike specific targets, the brain will remain in a state of chaos and unable to process a defense. If you can "break" something with your initial strike, and continue to strike other targets of opportunity you can win the fight quickly and decisively. The problem for most people who do not train to fight, is they just randomly start lashing out, landing ineffective blows on parts of the body which does not cause significant damage or pain. Learn to attack "targets" on the body, strike hard, quickly, and repeatedly!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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  5. Dirty War
    By WyattEarp in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
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    Last Post: January 27th, 2005, 11:31 PM

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