AED

This is a discussion on AED within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I am encouraging the members of my local gun club to attend an American Heart Association first responders CPR class i have lined up at ...

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Thread: AED

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array bunker's Avatar
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    AED

    I am encouraging the members of my local gun club to attend an American Heart Association first responders CPR class i have lined up at our club. We have many elderly guys and gals, and having people CPR certified would be a great thing that could save lives. We are also looking into getting an AED (automatic external defibrillator). I am in the medical field myself, and these are very easy to use. As long as you know CPR, you just put patches on patient and let the AED determine when to do CPR, and when to shock. It is pretty idiot proof. I was wondering how many other gun clubs out there have AED's??? They are definately worth looking into. http://www.aedsuperstore.com/zoll-aed-plus-package.html this is the AED we use at work, and is the one i suggested to the board member of our gun club. Also getting an ambu bag for $16 is a good idea also, as well as a sign for a central location of AED in club. Bunker

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Good idea. We recently put one in our Lodge as our members are getting older.
    Hiram25
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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Ambu bags are nice if you know how to use one, however without at least an oral airway you are likely to introduce a lot of air into the stomach, the end result being too much pressure in the thoracic cavity, limiting the effectiveness of CPR, and/or significant vomiting into the airway, resulting in aspiration. Ventilation is not very important in CPR any more. The best chance for survival is early defibrillation (if indicated, which is not always), uninterrupted quality CPR, quick EMS response, and rapid delivery to a cardiac care facility. Prehospital drug administration and advanced airway control, once hallmarks of best practices in resuscitation, are going out of fashion in most cases and usually considered only 'possibly helpful.' More EMS agencies and cardiac facilities are getting on board with hypothermic resuscitation, where nearly frozen IV fluids are infused and the core temperature maintained in a hypothermic state for 24 hours. This gives the heart time to heal while suppressing the damage done by the metabolic response to ischemic (oxygen deprived) heart tissue as a result of a clot in one or more of the coronary arteries.

    Once you install an AED, you have to have an ongoing monitoring and maintenance program. When they installed AEDs in O'Hare airport, in the first year there were 11 out of 11 saves. More recently, airport cardiac arrests have brought to light dead AEDs due to lack of recharging or unserviceable batteries..
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    Senior Member Array bunker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Ambu bags are nice if you know how to use one, however without at least an oral airway you are likely to introduce a lot of air into the stomach, the end result being too much pressure in the thoracic cavity, limiting the effectiveness of CPR, and/or significant vomiting into the airway, resulting in aspiration. Ventilation is not very important in CPR any more. The best chance for survival is early defibrillation (if indicated, which is not always), uninterrupted quality CPR, quick EMS response, and rapid delivery to a cardiac care facility. Prehospital drug administration and advanced airway control, once hallmarks of best practices in resuscitation, are going out of fashion in most cases and usually considered only 'possibly helpful.' More EMS agencies and cardiac facilities are getting on board with hypothermic resuscitation, where nearly frozen IV fluids are infused and the core temperature maintained in a hypothermic state for 24 hours. This gives the heart time to heal while suppressing the damage done by the metabolic response to ischemic (oxygen deprived) heart tissue as a result of a clot in one or more of the coronary arteries.

    Once you install an AED, you have to have an ongoing monitoring and maintenance program. When they installed AEDs in O'Hare airport, in the first year there were 11 out of 11 saves. More recently, airport cardiac arrests have brought to light dead AEDs due to lack of recharging or unserviceable batteries..
    Thanks for all the great info. My recertification at my hospital just a few months ago still taught chest compressions and breaths... i have heard that the new cpr is taught without the breaths, that air goes into and out of lungs with chest compressions alone. As for the ambu bag, i will ask the instructor... i know many are leary about putting their mouth onto anothers. How about the masks that have the one way valves in them, do they work better? thanks. bunker

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    AHA teaches that the ambubag requires at least 2 trained rescuers to use properly. One to seal the mask and position the head, one to adequately squeeze the bag. The pocket mask (with one way valve) can be easily used by one person to deliver artificial respiration, but still requires instruction for proper use. The head must be extended to open the airway, otherwise your breaths will still end up in the stomach. This is not a difficult skill but the knowledge (and preferably practice) must be in place to be effective. You can also get a 'mask' that comes in a small nylon bag. It folds out flat with the valve in the middle. It is a barrier for mouth to mouth resuscitation.

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    i definatley would not go with an ambu bag hanging in a public place, only trained and certified individuals should be using them, when i was with Greenwood Fire Dept. we had a guy at the mall who had one on him try to resucitate someone and ended up filling their stomach with air, basically causing them to vomit, then he failed to turn the person on their side and they aspirated vomit and passed away. definatley would not do this without training and certification
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    Senior Member Array bunker's Avatar
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    wow, sounds like the ambu bag is a bad idea.. i will instead look at the other options. Thanks so much for the information. bunker

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    Without being able to insert an esophageal airway I would be reluctant to use the bag. I have done CPR on a patient that vomited and it was not pleasant - this was a long time ago but I have never forgotten the experience. Very unpleasant, and in this day and age, the health of the rescuer may be at risk.

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