a few things I learned in my LAW CLASS - Page 2

a few things I learned in my LAW CLASS

This is a discussion on a few things I learned in my LAW CLASS within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I think everyone agrees that these things differ in every state. Your professor may be well educated on the laws of Washington, but the majority ...

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Thread: a few things I learned in my LAW CLASS

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array BCurry1's Avatar
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    I think everyone agrees that these things differ in every state. Your professor may be well educated on the laws of Washington, but the majority of those statements would not hold water in Oklahoma.

    In OK, we have the make my day law, and the castle doctrine. If someone breaks into your home, you have the right to shoot them DRT, and call the police to come clean up the body. Plus the BG's family can not sue you civilly.

    Sounds like good advice, and things you need to know, but they do not all apply to other states.
    Curry


  2. #17
    Member Array M1911's Avatar
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    IF YOU even take ONE STEP back, that is called retreating, and you could be and most of the time will be convicted for manslaughter, for retreating then provoking the BG, it does not matter that he is coming after you, if you retreat, you can't come right back and shoot them, unless you can prove to the jury by a prepondernce of the evidence that you absolutely positively had to, in any way shape or form.
    I seriously doubt that is correct and strongly suggest that you review that with your instructor. I suspect that you misinterpreted the instructor's remarks.

    In most states, you can only use deadly force if you, or another innocent, is in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury (provided that you did not do anything to create or aggravate the situation). In most states, you do not have to retreat if you are in your home. If you take a step back and the attacker follows, you are still in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury. So the situation hasn't changed. So deadly force is still justified.

  3. #18
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    Good! Another B-School Major!

    Quote Originally Posted by fitznig
    those were the words coming directly outta my teacher, who has 15 years experince practicing in Washington, i asked him what if a cougar is attacking your live stock,

    he went out to say live stock is not considered property, in therefore you can use deadly force against any such predator.

    Sadly, out of all the 50 people in my class, when he asked who has a CCW, i was the only one raising my hand, the teacher went on to make jokes about how Texas and ARizona citizens are all crazy gun wielding fanatics, "city boys and girls" i thought to my self. Just disgusting how people think guns are so bad.
    Oh yeah then the class got into a huge debate about how United States has more murders becuz of the lack of gun laws, I only had one other guy on my side of pro-gun. *shakes head*


    haha and i do not plan to be a laywer, its just a required class for Business school.

    Too bad you're so outnumbered! The Prof, as many have pointed out, was incorrect on several matters. Glad you're not working on the JD. BTW - Welcome to CC!


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13
    I don't recall any specific distinction being made about "replaceable" property in the Texas statutes. After all, what is easily replaceable to one person might be next to impossible to another.
    I paraphrased it as "replaceable". That helps my understanding of where I might "draw the line" so to speak. I should have highlighted or noted that distinction, but it was there for all to read.

    The statute says "protect or recover". Both of those terms indicate that the specific property "at risk" can be the subject of application of deadly force. This begs the question of "value", which is potentially a snake-orgy of dispute. To wit, one may arguably use deadly force if actor illegal takes property. Rhetorically, what is the property? What is the value? Is it replaceable? $10 worth of gasoline is property as defined, but, as easily "replaceable" property, I think use of DF is overstepping, same ditto a truck that will be replaced by insurance proceeds. A different answer could well result if something of little financial value but huge emotional or sentimental value were being stolen.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13
    As is too often the case, best to just grab the credits, but take the info with a grain of salt.
    Been there, done that LOL


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  5. #20
    Member Array fitznig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911
    I seriously doubt that is correct and strongly suggest that you review that with your instructor. I suspect that you misinterpreted the instructor's remarks.
    Nah I asked him today in class about the one step rule, and he is pretty darn certain it is considered retreat, unless you can prove beyond a resonable doubt otherwise to the jury. Where the whole agressor, threat deal comes thru.

    IF some guy busts into your house with a beer bottle in one hand and knife in the other hand, you take one step back to grab a gun to shoot him, you have to prove to the jury that in that one step he was still a threat and how he was a danger to your life.

    If you shoot him right there and then with out a one step retreat, you felt in the heat of passion of his crime that he was a threat to your life, you had no escape, and had to shoot him right there and then.

    Now then, while you might be able to convince a jury on the one step back retreat is okay, say you take 5 steps back and grab a gun to shoot him, its a case by case distinction, but I think my prof was just trying to get at the point {for humor in his lecture} that even one foot COULD get you into harm, and it is very hard to convince a jury otherwise. Its just one all cut clean and dry, theres too many things to think about, how a gun vs. a knife is justifible, if he has mental conditions to render him insanity or incompitent, to stupid to recoginze or appreciate the punishments for such crime. If you are a girl victem, and the criminal is mae, you will probablyh win the case hands down, however, if you a male victem with a female criminal with a knife, they jury and judge won't see eye to eye, why you couldnt simply fight off the girl with knife.

    This is the depth in which my prof went into and more so.


    He did add this time the exceptions to the rule,
    such as the BG having a gun, then things change a bit, but retreat is still in effect but you can prove a lot easier that your life was in danger, how there was no escape in your house, etc, etc.


    But he still stands by that while in public, retreat is highly encouraged over using deadly force in the majority of the cases.


    I think he mis understood my question about the livestock issue, but he still stands by LETHAL FORCE is not justifialbe for property only. Whether being real property, personal property, etc. Lethal force, according to him is not lawful for property alone.

    So for my grades sake, I will go by his lectures, for my life knowledge, I will take it with a grain of salt and investigate further to get a 100% correct answer, my prof being a laywer could have bias that skew his theory of law a certain way. Esp since he gave the opinion that he is anti-gun.

  6. #21
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    Some generalizations for the sake of humor.....

    A 90 year old grandmother can shoot the Pope and probably be OK because he has the age advantage......and its all relative.........

    A 6' 6", 275 lb 21 year old football playing, weightlifting buff kiddo should think twice about pulling a trigger on anyone - armed or not.....

    Who is at the most risk.........it is relative.......the threat and the victim.......


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    A man has a right to defend himself and his property. If he has to kill to defend himself, a third party, or his property, so be it.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  8. #23
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    fitznig:

    I'm sorry, but I do believe that either your prof is mistaken or there is some misunderstanding. Perhaps what he is trying to explain is that if you successfully left the scene and removed yourself from danger, then voluntarily returned to the scene knowing the attacker was still there, then there might be a problem.

    For example, you open the front door to a goblin who is intent on attacking you. You are able to close and lock the door before the goblin attacks. Then you go get your gun, return to the front door, and open it. I could understand why that might get you in legal trouble.

    If you are being attacked and you try to get away but you are pursued, you are in an even better legal situation than if you did not try to get away -- you did everything in your power to avoid the attack, including trying to get away, but the goblin continued his attack and you were forced to defend yourself.

    As for lethal force and property, that is state-specific. In Texas, lethal force is allowed to protect property within certain limitations. In most states, lethal force is not allowed in defense of property.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Fitz I hate to say it , but after skimming this thread I really have to suggest that next semester you spend your tuition money at another school where they know something of the subjects they alledge to teach .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  10. #25
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    This thread is so loaded with nonsensical BS that I was thinking about just closing it but, we'll see where it goes.

    An important reminder that every forum member should research their own respective state firearm rules and regulations and local ordinances & not pay any practical attention to the different (correct & incorrect) various "Internet Interpreted" gun laws of other states as they would relate to your personal carry of a firearm in your home state.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Close it ?? Heck Delete it before some poor soul new to firearms sees it and belives what they read lol .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  12. #27
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    Talking

    Close It? Delete it?
    I was thinking more like cuffing its hands behind an upright wooden post - offering it a final cigarette - blindfolding it - and then...Ready...Aim...squeezing the trigger on it.


  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array BCurry1's Avatar
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    ^^^^^

    Good one QK
    Curry

  14. #29
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    An important reminder that every forum member should research their own respective state firearm rules and regulations and local ordinances & not pay any practical attention to the different (correct & incorrect) various "Internet Interpreted" gun laws of other states as they would relate to your personal carry of a firearm in your home state.
    Exellent advice.

    Many people make the mistake of assuming that the laws of their own little world are the same all over...without realizing that is some cases there is a VAST difference...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  15. #30
    Member Array M1911's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I think Andrew Branca's book, "The Law of Self Defense" is out of print. It's worth hunting for. It doesn't make up for speaking with a knowledgeable attorney (though Andrew is one), but it's a good place to start.

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