Tampa murders and the handgun "waiting period"

Tampa murders and the handgun "waiting period"

This is a discussion on Tampa murders and the handgun "waiting period" within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; A mother shot her two teen-aged children to death. Full story here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/01/...iref=obinsite# A horrible story, indeed, but this one part pertains specifically to the ...

Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713

    Tampa murders and the handgun "waiting period"

    A mother shot her two teen-aged children to death. Full story here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/01/...iref=obinsite#

    A horrible story, indeed, but this one part pertains specifically to the armed citizen and the 2A:

    Schenecker had initially planned what she called the "massacre" -- killing the children and then herself, McElroy said on Monday -- for January 22, but she put it off after learning there would be a three-day check before she could buy a gun.
    So, in this case, it is demonstrably (and tragically) clear that the "waiting period" was absolutely worthless in saving the lives of these children. Thoughts?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,071
    *Playing the devil's advocate*

    So we should have just allowed her to carry it out that day and carry out her act of violence instead of giving her time that she might have used to change her mind, or time that someone else might have noticed something wrong?

    /advocate
    My blog

    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

  3. #3
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    Indeed. However, there is no evidence (that I'm aware of, anyway) that a single murder has been prevented by a waiting period, while there IS evidence of a victim being killed by a person who had been threatening her while she sat out the 'waiting period' and was thus unable to defend herself. Now, here is a case that suggests that the waiting period did absolutely nothing to save the lives of these children. The question is, if there is no evidence that it helps, and demonstrable evidence that it has both HARMED and DONE NOTHING, what is the purpose of the law?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Northern Kentucky
    Posts
    1,709
    The theory is that it stops crimes of passion , I am not saying it does but that is the reason given. I live in a state with no waiting period, I would be interested to see a comparison with a waiting period state.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

    There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.

    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,682
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Indeed. However, there is no evidence (that I'm aware of, anyway) that a single murder has been prevented by a waiting period, while there IS evidence of a victim being killed by a person who had been threatening her while she sat out the 'waiting period' and was thus unable to defend herself. Now, here is a case that suggests that the waiting period did absolutely nothing to save the lives of these children. The question is, if there is no evidence that it helps, and demonstrable evidence that it has both HARMED and DONE NOTHING, what is the purpose of the law?
    It allows people with their heads in the sand to feel better about the scary world around them.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  6. #6
    Member Array Forscythe87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    160
    I dont think the waiting period was a failure. I feel its there to mainly eliminate impulse murder and not something thats planned out and kept to. Even then it created a 3 day window where she could have been stopped had someone been aware of her mental state. If anyone has seen the lady its absolutely impossible not to realize she is flipping nuts.

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    The waiting period was UNDENIABLY a failure - the woman shot and killed the two kids. There could not possibly have been a worse outcome - that, to me, is a failure.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  8. #8
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    1,726
    Gary Kleck says there is no demonstrable link between waiting periods and reducing "crimes of passion."

    This wasn't a crime of passion. It was calculated, cold blooded murder.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    @ Wits' End
    Posts
    2,809
    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    It allows people with their heads (up their rears) to feel better about the scary world around them.
    Here, I fixed it for you.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    821
    Quote Originally Posted by Forscythe87 View Post
    I dont think the waiting period was a failure. I feel its there to mainly eliminate impulse murder and not something thats planned out and kept to.
    Yabbut:

    It is only a success if the number of impulse murders prevented is greater than the number of people murdered because they were waiting those three days. How is anyone going to know that?

  11. #11
    Member Array Forscythe87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    Yabbut:

    It is only a success if the number of impulse murders prevented is greater than the number of people murdered because they were waiting those three days. How is anyone going to know that?
    I'm not arguing that, y'all are definitely right. I don't mind a 3 day wait. Its easy for someone anti-gun to pop up here and say the OP makes lots of sense and we should make it a 7 day wait because 3 isnt enough. I can see how a waiting period can make sense in allowing someone to cool down, but y'all are right, without numbers proving it there's not much to be said. So i guess ill leave it at, agreeing but seeing theres at least some common sense in the "theory" of a wait.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kommie-fornia-stan
    Posts
    7,078
    Quote Originally Posted by Forscythe87 View Post
    I dont think the waiting period was a failure. I feel its there to mainly eliminate impulse murder and not something thats planned out and kept to. Even then it created a 3 day window where she could have been stopped had someone been aware of her mental state. If anyone has seen the lady its absolutely impossible not to realize she is flipping nuts.
    So you're saying the waiting period was a success?

    "Impulse murder" or crimes of passion are usually not pre-meditated and use whatever available weapon is nearby. This woman thought this plan out...but put it on hiatus for 3 days. News reports all indicate there wasn't a problem, so she wasn't going to be found out in the 3 days (or more!) while she was waiting for her background check to clear.

    <drift in thread>
    Now, suppose she was being stalked by someone (with her husband out of town)...and wanted to purchase a firearm for protection (she was also a former Army officer)....she'd still have to wait 3 days and in the meantime be unarmed.

    So...why have a waiting period at all?

    Maybe if you've been convicted of a DUI....should you have a waiting period before your next car purchase or rental?? That's silly, right?
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    821
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Maybe if you've been convicted of a DUI....should you have a waiting period before your next car purchase or rental?? That's silly, right?
    Not at all ! We can't have drunks just jumping into cars and driving off !

    Yeah, it is silly.

  14. #14
    Member Array dcody40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Eldersburg, Maryland
    Posts
    32
    My take on waiting periods, they are just a total waste of time, they don't do anything to effect me as a current firearms owner. I just have to come back later to finish up the paper work, but this is still kind of dumb as
    I already own multiple handguns/rifles/shotguns, then why the cool down period, just never made any sense. Now for the first time gun purchaser this may be ok. In Maryland, they make the new owner sit down and watch a safety video. They still have to wait for handguns and certain rifles, it's still not realistic at all. Now I realy don't think highly of crimes of passion, if there is that much passion involved and someone is really hurt, or want's to hurt someone, would that person actually go to a gun shop and go through the purchase process, instant check, wait the required waiting period, pickup the new gun and take it home to commit a crime, duh ! Yep I know this has probably happened, but how much, real world here. If you flip your lid, your going to react NOW, with anything you can get your hands on NOW, bat, kitchen knife, pan, golf club, table lamp, you got the point yet. It's just another Anti bunch of wasted crap that some idiot came up with, thinking that it would help the situation. And something allot of the talking heads on the boob tube are always babbling about, is this:
    Someone should have seen the signs, someone should have done something about this before it happend, or my favorite stupid statement, The gun was unregistered. THE POLICE CAN'T READ MINDS AND CAN'T ARREST SOMEONE WHO HAS NOT COMMITED A CRIME. ITS NOT ILEGAL UNTIL YOU DO IT AND YOU GET CAUGHT. WHO CARES IF IT'S UNREGISTERED, Are you any more hurt or dead if it's registered or not !

    What a bunch of stupid morons.

    Ok, off my soap box.
    Enjoy !

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Waiting period
    By DaveInTexas in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: November 10th, 2008, 02:11 PM
  2. Waiting period in FL?
    By Glock30SF in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: October 1st, 2008, 05:26 PM
  3. New 5 day waiting period
    By paramedic70002 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: April 4th, 2008, 10:42 PM
  4. Proposed 10-day waiting period
    By CLASS3NH in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: February 26th, 2007, 06:25 PM

Search tags for this page

florida gun waiting period
,
florida handgun waiting period
,
handgun waiting period in florida
,
how many homicides in tampa in 2011
,
how many murders has it been in tampa fl in 2011
,

how many murders in tampa 2011

,
how many murders in tampa fl 2011
,

how many murders in tampa in 2011

,
number of people murdered in tampa 2011
,
people who have dies because of gun waiting periods
,
tampa murders
,

tampa murders 2011

,
tampa woman kills children waiting period
,
waiting period for pistol in florida
,
ways to skip handgun waiting period in florida
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors