iPad 2 vs. Motorola Xoom

This is a discussion on iPad 2 vs. Motorola Xoom within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Any opinions, experience, comments? I'm not rushing to get something too quick, I've been waiting for the iPad, and others, to get better. IIRC the ...

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    iPad 2 vs. Motorola Xoom

    Any opinions, experience, comments?

    I'm not rushing to get something too quick, I've been waiting for the iPad, and others, to get better.

    IIRC the iPad does not use satellites for it's "GPS" positioning, what about the iPad 2 and Xoom?
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    I haven't used either, but in my opinion, the copy is never as good as the original.

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    iPad2 does not have GPS built in, it uses wireles triangulation. There are GPS apps to purchase and install, however for the iPad and iPhone. I am a big fan of the iPad and have noted that before in other threads. I can tell you that people on Verizon that I know who went from Android or windows phones to the iPhone are very pleased. Of course, it all has to do with what you plan on doing with it, but I have a large music collection on iTunes (the only decent software package for large music collections) which makes the iPad the only solution. Also, the iPad does not seem to be prone to malware attacks as the Android system does.

    Apple should send me a thank you card, my wife and I have iPhone 4's and iPads, will be getting new ones this week when the 2 comes out.
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    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

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    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

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    You may want to keep your options open. This site doesn't go into a lot of detail, but it may get you started. Top 20 best tablet PC iPad alternatives | News | TechRadar UK

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    While I still miss my Droid X sometimes I'm in love with my iPhone on verizon. I've had an original iPad since the first day they came out and can say I've used it everyday since then. I do plan on buying the iPad 2 as soon as I can get my hands on it. The Xoom is considerably smaller than the iPad 2 but to me Apple has set the standard.
    I started off as a PC guy years ago but became an apple fan after using my girlfriends Mac for the first time. Now between us we have 2 Verizon iPhones, 2 4th gen iPods, 2 MacBook Pros, and an iPad. I guess you could say I've been converted.
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    iPad.

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    Also consider to the relevant mix the Samsung 'Galaxy' tablet that debuted last September.
    It is strong as a contender against the iPad and the new Xoom.

    Further they have a revision due out in early spring that has been rumored since December to be even more badder.

    GALAXY Tab 10.1 - Samsung Mobile
    Samsung Galaxy Tab New Teaser Image: Possible 8.9-inch Phone Reviews

    I am in the market for same but have purposefully held off because I knew the iPad2 was going to drop soon and am waiting to see the facts & figures toward the second gen. Tab.
    I've learned to not adopt first gen. consumer electronics gear and to let relevant software options shakeout.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    I've learned to not adopt first gen. consumer electronics gear and to let relevant software options shakeout.

    - Janq
    Agreed, and has been my experience also, sort of sounds like a gun purchase.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    I am interested in the tablet world, but I am not sold on a single tablet yet. I am looking and trying to find one to fit my needs. For the record, I do not have a laptop or netbook. I am, however dissuaded by the iPad. I am not saying it isn't a worthwhile piece of hardware. It is relatively affordable (for an apple product, i guess), but I cannot get over it's lack of features and its closed operating system. I currently have an iphone and have been using iphones for a few years now. I simply cannot see a reason that the iPad has any advantage over the iPhone - other than its larger size. Yes, it has faster hardware - this should be expected. ....But it doesn't do anything an iphone can't do? If I am wrong, I would like someone to please point it out to me. Since I already have an iphone, I really can't figure out any reason that I would want an ipad. ...at all. Especially since my iphone is jailbroken and can already to so much more than a typical iphone, anyways. In no way am I discouraging someone from purchasing an ipad. I have handled them, and they are quite neat. The screen is very clear. I simply feel that there are so many tablets on the market that are getting the jump on the ipad because of it's lack of features - especially for all of the current iphone owners.
    Last edited by Lotus222; March 10th, 2011 at 04:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    I am interested in the tablet world, but I am not sold on a single tablet yet. I am looking and trying to find one to fit my needs. For the record, I do not have a laptop or netbook. I am, however dissuaded by the iPad. I am not saying it isn't a worthwhile piece of hardware. It is relatively affordable (for an apple product, i guess), but I cannot get over it's lack of features and its closed operating system.
    Most end-users don't care about specs; they care about user experience. iPad is a nice slab of hardware and it is obscenely competitive at $500. No other manufacturer has successfully shipped large volumes of a tablet in that price range. Competing tablets with similar specs are typically $700+.

    As for the "closed" operating system... it's just marketing FUD. Being able to install any operating system was really just a fluke of the PC. Few have considered or cared about how "closed" the operating system of their car's computer is; or their Playstation / Xbox; etc. Prior to the PC, Big Iron came with a vendor-supported UNIX. The PC is "open" enough to use alternate operating systems yet the dominant platform has still been Windows because it provides a more pleasant user experience and has more popular software than Linux or *BSD.

    Decoupling hardware and software leads to buggy/inconsistent implementations. It's difficult to test an app on the myriad of Android devices available. Similar difficulty in testing (and varied manufacturing quality) of PC hardware contributed to the notorious instability that plagued much of Windows' early history. It's also more recently contributed to scenarios where, for example, apps like Angry Birds can't run on some Android devices because the cheaper Android phones don't have the horsepower. With iOS, you can be reasonably sure that the device the developer wrote and tested an app on is the same as what the user will have to run the app. Do you want your phone / tablet experience to be as stable as Windows or as a gaming console?


    Apple's curated App Store in concert with mandatory code signing makes iOS an extremely difficult target for malware. Only apps vetted by Apple are allowed to be installed on the device (native apps that is, HTML5 remains an open development platform and Apple's support of it is regarded as superior to competitors). Most malware spreads by modifying a compromised app to perform unintended functions. Such modifications will cause the app's code signature to be invalidated and thus that malicious code is not allowed to execute. Application sandboxing further prevents a malignant app from stealing data out of other apps or parts of the device. A side effect of this is that end-users are able to safely and confidently install any of the hundreds of thousands of apps on Apple's App Store. This is unprecedented.

    If Microsoft made similar engineering decisions with Windows 15 years ago, there would never have been the jokes about BSODs. There probably wouldn't be many effective PC viruses, let alone the thousands now in the wild that have compromised hundreds of thousands of Windows PCs. Companies like Symantec and McAfee likely wouldn't even exist, let alone be "requirements" for IT departments. Finally, given the simplicity of software / OS maintenance with iOS vs PCs, it's likely that those IT departments wouldn't have gotten so big / draconian in the first place.

    I currently have an iphone and have been using iphones for a few years now. I simply cannot see a reason that the iPad has any advantage over the iPhone - other than its larger size. Yes, it has faster hardware - this should be expected. ....But it doesn't do anything an iphone can't do? If I am wrong, I would like someone to please point it out to me. Since I already have an iphone, I really can't figure out any reason that I would want an ipad. ...at all.
    I use mine when I don't feel like toting my laptop to a meeting or if I'm just sitting on the couch reading email / web articles. It's great for reading a book or watching a movie on a plane. In some cases it replaces what I'd do with a laptop. In other cases, it's offering me a function that no other device really offered. I could do many of those things on an iPhone, but it sucks to use a small screen for most of those tasks. Also, I can easily type 70-80 words per minute on an iPad, but large amounts of data entry on an iPhone is miserable. The form factor of the iPad really makes a difference when it comes to user experience.

    Especially since my iphone is jailbroken and can already to so much more than a typical iphone, anyways.
    Jailbreaking an iOS device is one of the most foolish things anyone could do. As I just described, the security controls Apple implemented provide an amazing step forward in terms of preventing malware and simplifying device maintenance. Subverting it so you can run software that was rejected from the App Store is a good way to end up with malware on your device. Most of the iOS exploits found in the wild are propagated by devices that were voluntarily compromised by their owners.

    In no way am I discouraging someone from purchasing an ipad. I have handled them, and they are quite neat. The screen is very clear. I simply feel that there are so many tablets on the market that are getting the jump on the ipad because of it's lack of features - especially for all of the current iphone owners.
    There aren't any other tablets "getting the jump" on the iPad because the other tablets are either vaporware (e.g. PlayBook) or more expensive / less featured at the same price (e.g Galaxy Tab). Apple sold 300k iPads in the first 80 days of the product and brought that to over 15 million in the first nine months of its release. Contrast that with Samsung VP Lee Young-hee: "As you heard, our sell-in was quite aggressive... around two millions. In terms of sell-out, we believe it was quite small." Apple will continue to widen that gap as they release an improved version of the iPad while other vendors are still struggling to bring their first release to market.
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    I'll buy an iPad when they will accept external memory devices and run Flash content on the web
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I'll buy an iPad when they will accept external memory devices and run Flash content on the web
    There are two primary types of Flash content on the web: 1) Flash video containers and 2) Interactive Flash applications. In the case of the former, most of the major sites are adopting h.264 as the standard for video. It doesn't require any plug-ins, is liberally licensed, and is the natural progression of standards from MPEG. In the case of interactive Flash applications, most of them were written for use with a system that employs a mouse pointer to do things like rollovers and other mouse events. Those types of applications would need to be rewritten to work with a touch interface, regardless of whether that touch interface is on an iPad or a Tab. Flash is another FUD argument. There are 350k+ apps on the App Store. What Flash content is so critical that an alternative doesn't already exist with native controls / widgets. Not to mention the impact the Flash runtimes have on stability and battery life.

    As for external memory devices... if you want to get stuff like photos off a camera then Apple sells a camera connection kit for $29. Otherwise, in case you didn't notice, everything is moving toward cloud storage. Many businesses (and government agencies) disallow the use of USB sticks entirely. An iPad can be bought with 64GB of storage. This is more than sufficient to store thousands of songs, books, tv shows, movies, whatever. Beyond hooking up a camera, I have never found a compelling need to hook up some form of external storage to an iPad or iPhone. They include more than enough storage for most users. Particularly so as more data is streamed from the cloud and simply cached on the device for offline use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    I haven't used either, but in my opinion, the copy is never as good as the original.
    Yep, you just can't compare to the old GridPad (1989)



    Apple didn't invent the tablet...

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    Hey Lifehertz. I think it is great that you enjoy your ipad so much. I'm sure many people do, just as you do. I think you mistook or misunderstood a couple of the things I was asking/talking about in my post, though. When I mentioned apples closed system, I was referring to the fact that iOS only allows you to purchase and install apps specifically from apple's app store. If apple, for any reason, doesn't allow a piece of software on their store, you cannot use it. I was not referring to installing a different OS on your device. If you think this is for safety and malware reasons, you are mistaken. It is all about the $$ in both apple, and their partner carriers pocketbooks. Viruses and malware haven't made their way to any major phone OS (enough to present a problem) on any system that I am aware of. The android OS is not a closed system, and I have never heard of it having any problems like you have mentioned. Apple refuses to let it's users use flash. They want to force you to use HTML5. Why should it be their choice? This is just one problem with their control of the entire system. These are some of the reasons that I jailbroke my iphone. Most people (even iphone users) don't understand what it means to jailbreak a phone. I can assure you, that after years of use, and much research, there is absolutely nothing wrong with jailbreaking an iphone. I have never had an exploit on my system, nor do I ever foresee this happening. I see that it is your opinion that apple knows what is best for you to put on your devices. That is fine. I think I am smart enough to know what to put on my phone, just like I am smart enough to know what to put on my computer. I have an iphone 3G (yes, not even a 3gs). My phone has wireless access point tethering, advanced call screening, multitasking, video recording, and many other things that even iphone 4 users still do not have access to. If you know of any security issues that I should be aware of, I would definitely like to know.

    So, now back to the issue. I like my iphone a lot. I like it a lot more since I jailbroke it. I like the iOS interface. As for my initial question which didn't get answered... Other than having a larger screen (which apparently enhances "user experience", and I do not doubt this), and having faster hardware... Can the ipad do anything that an iphone cannot already do on it's smaller screen and slower hardware?

    Edit: After writing this, I tried looking up exploits for jailbroken iphones. The one thing that is all over the web describes a bug that can steal your private information if you enable SSH on your jailbroken device. I would just like to say that any user working with SSH on an iphone is a very advanced user, and is probably not worried about picking up this one piece of malware. This would be akin to a programmer being worried about getting a virus on their imac. Not to mention, I don't know if this is even true... It seems like a ploy dropped by apple to get users to not jailbreak their device. However, apparently the solution to this problem is simply changing the default password if you decide to enable SSH on your jailbroken phone. ...Which should be a no brainer, anyways.

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    Member Array lifehertz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    Hey Lifehertz. I think it is great that you enjoy your ipad so much. I'm sure many people do, just as you do. I think you mistook or misunderstood a couple of the things I was asking/talking about in my post, though. When I mentioned apples closed system, I was referring to the fact that iOS only allows you to purchase and install apps specifically from apple's app store. If apple, for any reason, doesn't allow a piece of software on their store, you cannot use it. I was not referring to installing a different OS on your device. If you think this is for safety and malware reasons, you are mistaken. It is all about the $$ in both apple, and their partner carriers pocketbooks. Viruses and malware haven't made their way to any major phone OS (enough to present a problem) on any system that I am aware of. The android OS is not a closed system, and I have never heard of it having any problems like you have mentioned.
    Money might very well play a part, but thousands of apps on Apple's App Store are free or very inexpensive (the average is under $5). Apple only keeps 30% of app sales and makes nothing on the free apps, so I doubt they are making much money there since they still have to pay for the associated hosting costs. The App Store is also attractive for developers because Apple has paid out billions to developers since the App Store's inception. I don't think as many are making as much money with the Android Marketplace.

    Malware in the Android Market has been a problem for more than a year. Symantec agrees. By offering a curated App Store in concert with mandatory code signing, Apple is shifting the onus for malware prevention from the consumer to the manufacturer. Security expert Bruce Schneier notes "that insecure software is common. But because users, not software manufacturers, pay the price, nothing improves. Making software manufacturers liable fixes this externality." Apple's approach allows them to shoulder that responsibility, which in the long run will lead to better and more secure software.

    Compare that to: "DoDI 8500.2, Information Assurance (IA) Implementation, February 6, 2003, requires virus protection on mobile computing devices... iOS-based devices meet the virus protection requirement of DoDI 8500.2 by a combination of security policies, application control policies, and code signing to contain malware and control its ability to install itself on an iOS-based device and gain access to device resources, applications, and data and access the DoD network." - Section 2.7 of the DRAFT Security Technical Implementation Guide for iPhone / iPad.

    Apple refuses to let it's users use flash. They want to force you to use HTML5. Why should it be their choice? This is just one problem with their control of the entire system.
    So let's first note that Adobe hasn't seen much success with Flash in the mobile market. This is largely because shipping versions of Flash haven't even been available for most mobile devices. And again, it still doesn't change the fact that if Flash content doesn't fall under the video display or advertisement display categories, it's something that is based heavily on a pointer-driven interface. Most video on the web is now h.264; I doubt many people will miss Flash advertisements; and anything that's pointer-based has to be rewritten for a touch interface anyway. Almost everything Flash provides can be done with modern web programming (i.e. HTML5). So if faced with having to rewrite something for a touch interface, why would a developer tie themselves to a proprietary plug-in that isn't available on most mobile devices (e.g. all iOS users and most Android users)? Especially when you consider that modern mobility platforms include rich HTML5 support? No one is going to port to Flash for the mobile market. Not to mention that Adobe hasn't done much compelling work in the past decade.

    These are some of the reasons that I jailbroke my iphone. Most people (even iphone users) don't understand what it means to jailbreak a phone. I can assure you, that after years of use, and much research, there is absolutely nothing wrong with jailbreaking an iphone. I have never had an exploit on my system, nor do I ever foresee this happening. I see that it is your opinion that apple knows what is best for you to put on your devices. That is fine. I think I am smart enough to know what to put on my phone, just like I am smart enough to know what to put on my computer. I have an iphone 3G (yes, not even a 3gs). My phone has wireless access point tethering, advanced call screening, multitasking, video recording, and many other things that even iphone 4 users still do not have access to. If you know of any security issues that I should be aware of, I would definitely like to know.
    I know exactly what it means to jailbreak an iPhone. The device OS installation is modified to disable the security controls built into the platform. For example, jailbreaking your iPhone circumvents many of the code signing techniques I described. This means that unsigned (and potentially malicious) code could be executed on the device. It means that functions like remote wipe, application sandboxing, or passcode protection can be subverted. This is done to run software that was often specifically rejected from the App Store. The onus of verifying the safety and validity of software is shifted back onto the user. Most users are not sophisticated enough to know whether a piece of software is malicious; this is why most enterprises do not give admin rights to their users.

    In reality jailbreaking is a marginal activity. Fewer and fewer individuals have compelling reasons to do so as new releases of iOS come out. People once jailbroke their phones to do dumb things like change the wallpaper used on the home screen. Now that's something built into iOS. One day Apple will produce a device that cannot be jailbroken. This is all a natural evolution of trusted computing that's been foreshadowed for years. With Mac OS X Lion, Apple is bringing this same structure of code signing and App Stores to desktop operating systems. It's a huge leap forward if you care about things like the security and stability of a computing platform.

    At the end of the day it's a personal choice. I long ago passed my PC tech days and stopped caring about hardware specs. I grew tired of having to frequently reinstall Windows or deal with running the various antivirus / end-point protection to ensure my system ran smoothly. So I switched to the Mac because it's a computer that requires far less maintenance than a Windows PC. (It's also UNIX so it has a stronger security profile than Microsoft's OS.) The iPhone and iPad kick that up a notch by making it so that installing / updating the OS and software is easy enough for millions of unsophisticated end-users to do so comfortably and without fear of malware. The tight integration between software and hardware allows Apple to produce a more stable platform and for third-parties to develop on the same kit their users will have.

    Google is taking the opposite approach to those efforts. The deployment of OS updates is handled by the carriers, resulting in many Android users being stuck on older versions of the OS. The Android Marketplace is not curated, which has resulted in malware being injected and downloaded by hundreds of thousands of users. With dozens of different manufacturers building Android devices, it is impractical for Google or third-party developers to ensure stable software performance or feature compatibility across devices. It also means that if a manufacturer wants to build some cool new hardware function into their device, they have little control over whether Google adds support for it or if third-party developers want to use it.

    Finally, while Apple has a vested interest in ensuring iOS's success, Google doesn't have as clear a profit motive to ensure responsible stewardship of the platform. In the past, Google has entirely dropped products (e.g. wave) or let them rot on the vine (e.g. orkut). I'm still not sure why they are producing two different tablet OS, though I imagine Android will eventually eclipse Chrome OS. I bet all those Android tablet adopters will be upset if it goes the other way.

    Can the ipad do anything that an iphone cannot already do on it's smaller screen and slower hardware?
    Yes. It can run apps that are designed to work on an iPad because they require a larger screen and faster hardware. There's about 60,000 such apps available to date. It's difficult to explain in text because it's about the experience. Take even something simple like the native mail app. They both do functionally the same thing, but working with email on the iPad is a more pleasant experience because there's a larger display. You can see more of a selected email message, as well as have your inbox listing on-screen at the same time. The larger display allows for a larger soft-keyboard, which makes typing a response far easier (the keyboard keys on the iPad are about the same size as a full-size keyboard). Browsing the web on an iPad is also more enjoyable than on an iPhone or even a desktop / laptop. It's not just a big iPhone; iPad is a completely different experience and use case.

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