My city lying about recycling?

This is a discussion on My city lying about recycling? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Sig35seven Recycling makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy. Like we're really doing something to help the planet. It wastes natural resources ...

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Thread: My city lying about recycling?

  1. #31
    Member Array Nathanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Recycling makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy. Like we're really doing something to help the planet.

    It wastes natural resources and does more harm than good. Recycle is another nanny state program designed to create more government jobs.

    So recycling companies that make money don't actually want to? They are just part of a government conspiracy to save energy, resources, and have private companies make profits.

    Think about all those big deisel trucks driving around sucking down fuel and then the factories that consume energy and all the contaminated water that results from the process. What a scam program.

    So I guess you don't reload ammo. All that energy, time, contaminated water from cleaning the brass and working with heavy metals. Yea, what a scam program

    Are we really running out of sand to make glass?

    They should reduced the consumtion of the products at the source. Boxes of cereal half full, stop junk mail and phone books to save paper or make the containers for products smaller. Look at the box a DVD comes in. Total waste of materials.

    Be glad they don't recycle.

    Agreed. A good portion of goods/packaging material used today is unnecessary
    In conclusion, your tinfoil hat is too tight dude. Settle down and think for your self, unless the government is already controlling your thoughts.

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanimal View Post
    In conclusion, your tinfoil hat is too tight dude. Settle down and think for your self, unless the government is already controlling your thoughts.
    So, you like a government program that creates profits for companies and creates jobs for people but actually makes the situation worse?

    Reloading ammo...
    Lets also compare apples to apples...would you reload your ammo if you had to ship out the casings and melt them down and THEN remanufacture them all over again from scratch and then raise the price of ammo because it now takes more energy to do all these steps? I doubt anyone would bother if this is what would be required to reload.

    Back in the old days they would pick up your milk bottles sanitize them and refill the same bottle (coke and milk are two that come to mind). Much the same as reloading your ammo. So todays recycling isn't to be compared and is far more energy consuming.

    Another huge government scam is ethanol. Do some research. It's a crappy fuel added to our gas. Ethanol does NOT contain as much energy (per volume) as gasoline. When it gets added to the gasoline you will pay more for it at the pump and you will get less gas mileage out of a tank of fuel. A lose-lose for the consumer. Does it make more money for the farmers? You bet it does! These private companies even get government subsidies to help fund this non-supporting project. (you don't see the tractors or factories running on ethanol) Another government program that has created an industry out of thin air and is a complete scam.

    So what really is the end goal of recycling or ethhanol production? To create jobs and profits for corporations or is it really meant to save the planet?

    If you think your helping by carrying your little bottles down to the curb you have been duped. What do you think your saving exactly, the beaches? (Glass is made from sand)
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Ever think to ask if maybe the only thing that one truck did was to empty the recycle dumpster and take it to the facility?

    How else would you empty one if not with a truck outfitted with the mechanism to do it?

    I've seen plain ol garbage trucks that only pick up the recycle dumpsters and some that only pick up the cardboard dumpsters.

  5. #34
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    Here is what I don't understand about this thread; Private business has been recycling long before the Gub'ment stuck its nose in it. For private enterprise to be doing it, that must mean there is profit in it somewhere. I'm sure since there is incentives and funding for recycling programs, there is plenty of fraud and not so efficient methods happening. The whole ethanol thing is a great example of that. And that is true of just about any gub'ment program out there.

    Also, where I live, trash is handled by a private company. We pay a fee directly to them, and they come out and collect my trash curbside once a week. Interestingly enough, they have a recycling program that is no cost to me. In fact, I get a lower bill if I participate. I put my paper, glass and metals in another bin, and a truck comes by and picks that up too. They have their own sorting and melt down facility, and they resell the material in bulk. If the private company goes through all that effort, it has to be beneficial. I highly doubt that the government is footing the bill for all that. Tax breaks maybe, but there is no way gub'ment is paying that tab.

    Also, I don't get the whole "I'm against anything green" mindset. (I also don't get the militant greenie either, but thats for another time.) If we can do stuff that conserves resources, keeps things cleaner etc., Why not? Sure it takes a little more effort on my families part to recycle our stuff, but why not? It saves me a little money, and it cuts our actual trash load in half. (yeah, no exaggeration it really cuts it in half.) I see no harm in it.

    What really bothers me is the guys that hate the Prius. (I'm using the model name generically) Its a flipping car. If somebody wants to drive a Prius, let them have at it. Them buying a Prius advances technology into vehicle propulsion, which will benefit us all down the road. I still prefer my good old American V8 powered SUV. But, I realize that the day is coming that filling up that tank will not be economically feasible any longer. When that day gets here, I'd sure like the technology and infrastructure to be there so I can purchase something comparable in size and power. Also, the Prius driving greenies are prolonging my ability to drive my V8 SUV longer by lowering the demand for gasoline. So, hating on that... I just don't get it.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Also, I don't get the whole "I'm against anything green" mindset. (I also don't get the militant greenie either, but thats for another time.) If we can do stuff that conserves resources, keeps things cleaner etc., Why not? Sure it takes a little more effort on my families part to recycle our stuff, but why not? It saves me a little money, and it cuts our actual trash load in half. (yeah, no exaggeration it really cuts it in half.) I see no harm in it.
    I'm not against "anything green." However, I am all for saving our resources and that is exactly why I'm against these programs. I'll say it one more time... because these mentioned programs use MORE resources during the process than they save. They make things worse NOT better. Dirtier not cleaner.

    The Prius uses more resources than it saves.

    Ethanol uses way more resouces than it saves.

    What does recycling your glass do? Using all the energy required to accomplish exactly what... save sand???
    Yes, that is a wonderful government program.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

  7. #36
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    But what programs? If its all a conspiracy, why is private industry doing it now, and way back when too? I agree with you 110% on the ethanol thing, that is a load of crap. But I really don't see it with the recycling. Glass... Its got to be more efficient to melt and recast existing glass than it is to make new. Sand isn't the issue. Its time and energy.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #37
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    But, but, but...... it makes you FEEEEEL better.

    Here's some recycling for you. When I planted my garden this year, I put a layer of compost under the seeds. I grew really big squash plants. We ate squash, we froze squash, we gave squash away. They ran their course. I dug them up Saturday and threw them back in the compost pile. And I put the unused ends of squash in the compost pile too. That's recycling.

    I'm not sure the the blue bin at the end of the driveway is really recycling though. But I do that anyway.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  9. #38
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    The Prius thing went back a few years where some researcher worked up the carbon footprint of a Prius compared to a H2 Hummer, over it's manufacture and lifetime. It has to do with the batteries. The minerals are mined in some god forsaken place using a great deal of energy, then shipped to China where they are made into batteries in some factory belching smoke, then shipped to Japan where the car is assembled, then shipped to the US for someone to buy and feel good about not polluting the planet. In the long run, the Hummer produced less carbon emissions.
    Yes - it is total BS. There have been any number of studies done afterwords that showed that was all complete BS. I could point you to some research documents on that, if you'd like. This type of thinking is the same thing that causes us to loose our rights for bearing arms. Too many people that simply don't like guns will listen to stories about gun crime and without actually doing their homework, believe what they are told.

    Same with electric cars. I can't tell you how many people tell me they'd love an electric car because it produces no pollution. I remind them it's really a coal powered vehicle, since it has to be recharged by a coal fired power plant most likely. They look at me like I'm crazy, "No. I'd just plug it into my house." Oh, boy!
    Ah.. now here's where you are so wrong it hurts.. Lets have a look at the big picture, I had to make this video for the sole purpose of busting this myth:

    Sig35seven likes this.
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  10. #39
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    Let me highlight my point on hybrid and electric cars;

    I don't know enough about the topic to make an intelligent argument either way, obviously Adric22 knows a little bit about the topic. But, my thought is this- Even though hybrid or an electric car does not suit my needs or tastes right now, someday, I hope things advance enough to where they do. And maybe we won't settle on electric, maybe it will be hydrogen or some other form of energy. But, the point is, by supporting the technology and people purchasing these vehicles, it gives reason and motivation for the innovation we need to progress forward and get away from foreign oil. If the Prius was a total flop on the sales floor, we would not be seeing the Insight, Leaf or even the hybrid trucks and SUV's. Advances like that are what is important in the long run, not who creates more pollution or uses more resources right now.

    I guess I just don't see the point in fighting the technology. I embrace it knowing that it is, like always, a work in progress. Then again, I'm sure there was plenty of people during the turn of the century that hated those confounded horseless carriages too.
    atctimmy likes this.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #40
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    This is clearly a job for Captain Planet:

    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  12. #41
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    My only problem with the Prius (and it's kin) is that they are not economically viable. If you do the numbers they are just too expensive to own. They cost as much as 13K (starting at $23,500) more than a similar sized and equipped compact car. A new Ford Fiesta (starting at $12,700) or Hyundai Accent (starting at $9,950) is a similar sized gas powered car getting 40mpg.

    The reality isn't comparing a Prius to an SUV like in the video. The reality is comparing a Prius to an economy type compact car. Does anyone really think they are going to save 13K on gas in 8 years over a 40mpg car? Why 8 years you ask? Because that is the expected battery life of the Prius before they will need replaced costing thousands more dollars. On the other hand I reasonably expect to drive my Hyundai (with it's ten year 100,000 mile warranty) or my Ford (5/60K) for twelve years or so. Fifteen to twenty years if I'm lucky.

    The value just isn't there for me.
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  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    But what programs? If its all a conspiracy, why is private industry doing it now, and way back when too? I agree with you 110% on the ethanol thing, that is a load of crap. But I really don't see it with the recycling. Glass... Its got to be more efficient to melt and recast existing glass than it is to make new. Sand isn't the issue. Its time and energy.
    It's not all a conspiracy. Some recycling is needed and works well. For example, copper, aluminium, steel (autos). Privately owned metal recycling has been successful for many years without the help of government. Curb side recycling was sold to us. There was not a growing need to save sand. There was no shortage of glass. The government created a program that would create jobs. Their interest was NOT to produce glass more efficiently. The glass industry produces glass from sand ready to manufacture in it's current form. Recycled bottles are not. Sand comes from one source loaded quickly onto large trucks. Recycled bottles get collected from thousands of different homes using many large trucks very slowly. When recycling many more steps are added to the process making it less effiecient. They need to sort plastic and paper from the glass. Colors need to be sorted etc... They need to take the recycled glass back to it's basic form where as sand is ready to go into manufacture in it's natural form and requires much less energy to complete the task.

    This (recycling) should be about producing a needed product as effienctly as possible with as little impact on resources and the planet. I think we would all agree on that. However, this is NOT the goal of government. They want to create industries that spur jobs and have absolutely nothing to do with effieciency. They have succeeded but it's not what you think it is and it's NOT 'green' at all. Those that believe their efforts of recycling are actually doing something good have been duped.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    OK, first of all an update on the original topic. I got a call from the city and they readily admitted that this was happening. He said the container has had so much contamination of other non-recyclable materials that they simply couldn't use it. However, they said that they would be working on improving the situation. I explained to them a better sign might help. The sign on the recycle dumpster is very small and if you just had somebody driving by looking for a dumpster, they might not notice. Being that there are regular trash dumpsters right next to it, I find it unlikely somebody would purposefully contaminate it. So he said they would try to find a larger sign or paint the dumpster. So at least they didn't ignore me.

    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    My only problem with the Prius (and it's kin) is that they are not economically viable. If you do the numbers they are just too expensive to own. They cost as much as 13K (starting at $23,500) more than a similar sized and equipped compact car. A new Ford Fiesta (starting at $12,700) or Hyundai Accent (starting at $9,950) is a similar sized gas powered car getting 40mpg.

    The reality isn't comparing a Prius to an SUV like in the video. The reality is comparing a Prius to an economy type compact car. Does anyone really think they are going to save 13K on gas in 8 years over a 40mpg car? Why 8 years you ask? Because that is the expected battery life of the Prius before they will need replaced costing thousands more dollars. On the other hand I reasonably expect to drive my Hyundai (with it's ten year 100,000 mile warranty) or my Ford (5/60K) for twelve years or so. Fifteen to twenty years if I'm lucky.
    This tends to suggest to me that you've never driven a Prius before. Even if it weren't a hybrid, it is still a much better car than a Fiesta. The Prius borders on being a luxury car. It is more comparable to a Camry or Accord and it is right there in that same price range. Yes, if saving money was your only concern, you'd be better off buying a used Honda Civic for $5,000 and driving it for several years. But if you were going to go out any buy a $25,000 car anyway, then buying a Prius would save you more money over another car in its price range. Also the 40 mpg rating for the Fiesta and other similar vehicles is deceiving because those are highway figures. Most people don't understand that highway mileage really only counts on long trips. So it would be a rare thing to see that type of mileage on a regular commute. The Prius gets 52 mpg in the city so you can really expect nearly double the fuel economy in real-world scenarios over a vehicle rated at 40 mpg highway. As for the batteries, they are warrantied for 8 years but tend to last a lot longer than that. The first-generation Prius (2001 - 2003) has had some battery issues due to leaking cells but it has only affected a small number of cars. The 2004 and newer ones have had virtually no battery failures, or any other failures for that matter. The Prius is one of the most reliable cars on the road. Compared to some of those other cars you mentioned such as a Hyundai, there is no comparison when it comes to reliability. If you don't believe me, check some of the ratings from people like consumer reports. One of the most amazing things about the cars is that even after 300,000 miles they still run fine and don't even leak oil. Due to the fact that the engines don't run all of the time and tend to run at lower RPM, allowing the electric motor to do most of the hard work, the engines last forever.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  15. #44
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    OK, first of all an update on the original topic. I got a call from the city and they readily admitted that this was happening. He said the container has had so much contamination of other non-recyclable materials that they simply couldn't use it. However, they said that they would be working on improving the situation. I explained to them a better sign might help. The sign on the recycle dumpster is very small and if you just had somebody driving by looking for a dumpster, they might not notice. Being that there are regular trash dumpsters right next to it, I find it unlikely somebody would purposefully contaminate it. So he said they would try to find a larger sign or paint the dumpster. So at least they didn't ignore me.



    This tends to suggest to me that you've never driven a Prius before. Even if it weren't a hybrid, it is still a much better car than a Fiesta. The Prius borders on being a luxury car. It is more comparable to a Camry or Accord and it is right there in that same price range. Yes, if saving money was your only concern, you'd be better off buying a used Honda Civic for $5,000 and driving it for several years. But if you were going to go out any buy a $25,000 car anyway, then buying a Prius would save you more money over another car in its price range. Also the 40 mpg rating for the Fiesta and other similar vehicles is deceiving because those are highway figures. Most people don't understand that highway mileage really only counts on long trips. So it would be a rare thing to see that type of mileage on a regular commute. The Prius gets 52 mpg in the city so you can really expect nearly double the fuel economy in real-world scenarios over a vehicle rated at 40 mpg highway. As for the batteries, they are warrantied for 8 years but tend to last a lot longer than that. The first-generation Prius (2001 - 2003) has had some battery issues due to leaking cells but it has only affected a small number of cars. The 2004 and newer ones have had virtually no battery failures, or any other failures for that matter. The Prius is one of the most reliable cars on the road. Compared to some of those other cars you mentioned such as a Hyundai, there is no comparison when it comes to reliability. If you don't believe me, check some of the ratings from people like consumer reports. One of the most amazing things about the cars is that even after 300,000 miles they still run fine and don't even leak oil. Due to the fact that the engines don't run all of the time and tend to run at lower RPM, allowing the electric motor to do most of the hard work, the engines last forever.
    I owned a Prius and liked driving it. However it had some draw backs. The acceleration is very poor and when pulling on to a freeway with a tractor trailer bearing down on me there were times I wished I had more power.

    Sitting in traffic is where the Prius really shines. It's totally quite and consumes very little fuel. On freeways at 75/80 MPH the mileage dropped to around 40 MPG. I tested this many times and over 60 mph the mpg really began to suffer.

    I got rid of the Prius because of an approaching date for battery replacement which would cost a lot on money.
    I now have a Volkswagon Jetta with the Turbo Deisel Injection (TDI) This is an interesting technology and I think it's a better choice than a Prius.

    To start...The Jetta was LESS money to purchase and no costly battery replacement ever.
    Diesel fuel carries more energy per gallon than gasoline so a tank lasts longer. I can't help but wonder why the Prius doesn't use a diesel engine like this as well. This engine would be easily adapted to a number of bio-fuels where as the Prius is gasoline only.

    This Jetta is about the same size but the performance is FAR better than the Prius. It's actually very spirited acceleration and you'd never know you were driving a diesel. It performs just like gasoline and runs VERY clean.

    Now, here is the the real reason for buying a Prius (or not). Fuel mileage on the Jetta is excellent on the freeway. The same trip at 75/80 mph I get around 50 MPG. That's right 10 more mpg than the Prius! Around town or in traffic the Jetta performs well but not quite as well as the Prius. So it depends on what roads your driving on.

    I live in Orlando Fl. and achieve a BETTER over all MPG with the Jetta than the Prius. Combine that with far improved performance and it's really no contest. The Jetta is superior in almost all areas for less money and NO batteries to ever worry about.

    This technology has been around for approx 10 years or more and I don't understand why it hasn't been developed more.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

  16. #45
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    Dear adric22, my in-laws own a Prius and I drive one fairly often. It is NOT a luxury car. It IS a nice little car and I don't have any beef with it other than the numbers. If you want me to substitute a compact car as my example for a subcompact the numbers don't change much. Luxury cars are in a whole different ball park.

    The EPA ratings for 40mpg is an average number (city/highway). It's used here strictly for comparison. Some cars do better, some do worse. It depends on the driver and the conditions. You may get 52 in the city with your Prius but it isn't as efficient on the HWY as the other cars so DEPENDING ON USE it's only going to average 10 to 12 MPGs over other high mileage cars. We haven't even touched on diesel powered cars.

    As to the lifespan of the car it depends again on the use as to the value of it. It's a simple fact that the batteries are going to degrade and need replacing at around 8 years. If a person gets 300K miles out of it then sure it's worth it. Most folks aren't going to get nearly that many miles out of their car in 8 years. Plenty of folks will be driving their gas powered cars longer than 8 years regardless of the mileage. Heck, my pick-up just passed 8 years and I have no plans to replace it.

    The Prius is a niche product. It's neat but it just isn't economically viable for the average Joe over the long haul.


    ETA:
    To start...The Jetta was LESS money to purchase and no costly battery replacement ever.
    Diesel fuel carries more energy per gallon than gasoline so a tank lasts longer. I can't help but wonder why the Prius doesn't use a diesel engine like this as well. This engine would be easily adapted to a number of bio-fuels where as the Prius is gasoline only.

    This Jetta is about the same size but the performance is FAR better than the Prius. It's actually very spirited acceleration and you'd never know you were driving a diesel. It performs just like gasoline and runs VERY clean.

    Now, here is the the real reason for buying a Prius (or not). Fuel mileage on the Jetta is excellent on the freeway. The same trip at 75/80 mph I get around 50 MPG. That's right 10 more mpg than the Prius! Around town or in traffic the Jetta performs well but not quite as well as the Prius. So it depends on what roads your driving on.

    I live in Orlando Fl. and achieve a BETTER over all MPG with the Jetta than the Prius. Combine that with far improved performance and it's really no contest. The Jetta is superior in almost all areas for less money and NO batteries to ever worry about.
    What he said is exactly the point I'm trying to make. There are simply better cars for less total money. If you live in a big city and are always in traffic or only drive short distances a Prius (or Leaf) might be better for you.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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