US Loses Credit Rating - Page 3

US Loses Credit Rating

This is a discussion on US Loses Credit Rating within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; With campaign season approaching, there will be a lot of political positioning, finger pointing, and letting things go one way or the other so that ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    With campaign season approaching, there will be a lot of political positioning, finger pointing, and letting things go one way or the other so that somebody can point the finger at the other side. We get burned in the middle of the political process. It's not about "The People" anymore, its about the politicians. Enact strict term limits, end lifetime benefits once someone has been in office, and put an end to professional politicians regardless of party. That's the real starting point to any fix.
    mr.stuart likes this.
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    All politics aside, what concerns me most is that there is not much of a public uproar about this. Whomever's watch something like this happens on, it is demonstrated proof of incompetance of leadership.

    Where is the public outrage?

    ...and Atlas shrugged.
    ...unfortunately a long time ago friend.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    ...Enact strict term limits, end lifetime benefits once someone has been in office, and put an end to professional politicians regardless of party. That's the real starting point to any fix.
    And to do that, we have to get people elected to the positions to do that. Catch 22.

    The entire voting population of the US can scream out in unison that very thing in Nov, and DC will reply with "Ain't gonna' happen."

    We have seen time and time again where "The People Have Spoken" and the Govt either ignored it, or overturned it in closed door sessions.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    But if you must, the problem here is that there is an influential contingent in the government that is opposed to raising revenue.
    I have no problem with the government raising revenue. But how do you do that?
    Your answer is to raise taxes. Higher taxes means more revenue flowing into Washington, right? Seems logical.
    But it doesn't work, never has, never will. You see at some tipping point, people shelter their money in tax free investments, or offshore. So, the net result of raising taxes is LESS revenue flowing to government.
    When Obama was a candidate, he was asked this very question. "Would you raise taxes if it meant LESS revenue to the government? His answer, "Yes, because it's the right thing to do."? What? That's insane. Not if you only care about the re-distribution of wealth and so-called social justice.
    He still says the same thing. "It's not fair that a hedge fund manager pays a lower tax rate than his secretary."
    The key word is "rate" Never mind that he paid in $1000000 and she paid $5000, he was paying a lower rate (on dividends)

    So, how does the government raise revenue? Get the economy rolling. Cut taxes, let people invest, business hire new taxpayers, cut worthless regulations, get government out of the way. That will never happen as long as Obama is president.
    Nancy Pelosi last week, "Extending unemployment benefits creates new jobs." What? That's absurd.

    And those people with 100' yachts you hate. Who builds them, who fixes them, who sells them fuel, who outfits them with electronics? Let's put them all out of work too! Confiscate every penny from millionaires and you can run the country for 20 days. Then what do you do for the next 20 days? The millionaires are gone, you killed the golden goose.
    Those millionaires are already paying far more than their "fair share."

    You probably were happy with Clinton, I'd guess. His budget was $1.7 trillion in 2000. Today we are spending $3.5 trillion and you say we need to raise revenue? Can you explain how we are spending more than twice what we spent during the "good times"? No, you can't and neither can I. (the military sure isn't getting $1.8 trillion MORE than in 2000)

    Cut spending NOW. It's insane.

    Tell me where I'm wrong.
    Tzadik and Pistology like this.

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Your answer is to raise taxes.
    No. Go shout at somebody else.

    I am answering the question as to why the US was downgraded. If a major nation is no longer able to raise revenue, it gets downgraded because it has become dysfunctional.
    Hopyard likes this.
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  7. #37
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Fact is, a very small number of people - about .1 percent of our population - own about half or more of everything. So our GDP ($14 trillion) mostly goes to them and they refuse to pay any additional taxes.
    !. Let's see your facts. Here's mine.
    2. The top 5% pay 70% of taxes.
    3. 40,000,000 workers pay NO income taxes, yet consume most of the government services.
    4. And you say MOST of our GDP goes to the super rich? I doubt it, but good, let them hire people.
    5. "They refuse to pay additional taxes?" I don't blame them. We are overtaxed now.

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    ...And those people with 100' yachts you hate. Who builds them, who fixes them, who sells them fuel, who outfits them with electronics? Let's put them all out of work too...
    The loss of jobs of those that build toys for only 10% of the population? That is not nearly as many jobs as one company outsourcing a simple call center/customer service or support to another county (funny how we have seemed to accepted that one).

    Who builds them - Immigrant workers, more than I like to think under the table.

    Who fixes them - A small number of tradesman, where that is not their only source of work.

    Who sells them fuel - Corp-rat fuel companies with fueling stations on every street corner.

    Who outfits them with electronics - same people that build them.

    Seriously, just how big is the market for 100' yachts? How many factories are pumping them out?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    I am answering the question as to why the US was downgraded. If a major nation is no longer able to raise revenue, it gets downgraded because it has become dysfunctional.
    That's not why we were downgraded.
    It was made VERY clear, that the credit rating services were looking for CUTS in our unsustainable spending in the neighborhood of $4 trillion. Washington made a dog and pony show out of the Aug 2 deadline to pay bills. That had nothing to do with it. As a result, and the failure of congress and the president to rein in spending, we were downgraded.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The loss of jobs of those that build toys for only 10% of the population?
    10% of the population has 100'yachts? I must really be poor.
    Who builds them - Immigrant workers, more than I like to think under the table.
    Who fixes them - A small number of tradesman, where that is not their only source of work.
    Who sells them fuel - Corp-rat fuel companies with fueling stations on every street corner.
    Who outfits them with electronics - same people that build them.
    I could say the same about your job.

    So, let's put them all out of business. Let's confiscate all the money from the so called rich.
    Then what?

    You need a dose of reality.
    Please watch this video, it's called "Eat the Rich." It's worth a few minutes.

    ‪EAT THE RICH!‬‏ - YouTube

  11. #41
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    Why were we downgraded? S&P's spokesperson has made it very clear that a major factor was political instability and not financial. We know where the political stability has come from.
    shockwave likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    Ladies and Gentlemen, if you have cash buy Gold, Silver, and ammo! That assumes you have your weapons.

    The unemployment numbers are BAD and those on the Government Dole are ridiculous, but we get what we reap!

    In the 60s we lowered the educational standards to allow "People of Color" equal access to higher education! NOTE: we lowered the standard four (4) times since then! Why didnít we raise the standards of the inter-city school! We begin classifying people by their race not to be raciest, i.e., African- American, Mexican-American, and so for. Please note Iím Native American on my motherís side! So why werenít they classified as Americans with African heritage or Americans with Latino heritage? BECAUSE IT DIVIDED US!

    Let look at Social Security! Here are some facts; In a U.S. Supreme Court case, Helvering v. Davis (1937), the Court held that Social Security was not an insurance program saying, "The proceeds of both employee and employer taxes are to be paid into the treasury like any other internal revenue generally, and are not earmarked in anyway." In another Supreme Court case, Fleming v. Nestor (1960), the Court said, "To engraft upon Social Security system a concept of "accrued property rights" would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever-changing conditions which it demands."

    SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOTHING BUT A TAX ON EMPLOYMENT!

    However all government workers, i.e., Federal, State, Local Governmental, and Teacherís Unions are exempt from social security because they have personal retirement plan and wonít be a burden to Social Security! So for the last fifty (50) years the Congress has been co-mingling, I call it embezzling, our Social Security Tax dollars with the General fund and paying for the overpriced public workers benefit! You want to know why Social Security is broke, look at the pension plans of public workers unions!

    But wait didnít Harry Reid say Social Security was not broke because it had all those promissory notes from the Feds to pay for it! Although you did sign for the notes, Harry and all members of Congress since 1960 has signed for you; so you owe the taxes to repay the notes to Social Security!

    I have a BOO-HOO moment every time I hear a Public worker complain about paying 3% for their retirement account!

    As for me I'm preparing for the worst election year in the history of the Republic! This is a make or break election in 2012!


    In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. -- John Adams

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  13. #43
    Senior Member Array DaRedneck's Avatar
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    I don't know people hate on the wealthy. Last I checked, I never received a paycheck from a poor man.
    "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." - Leonardo da Vinci

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    Kennedy was a senator's son and war hero who parlayed into politics.
    Yes, he did his war service, but otherwise was a rich kid's rich kid.

    LBJ a high school teacher.
    And had one of the nations absolute best domestic policies imaginable. Too bad he screwed up VN.

    Nixon a family grocery / gas clerk, combat veteran.
    Not sure about the combat veteran thing as I haven't had a chance to check, but he would be anathema to today's Republicans. He instituted wage and price controls as a means to get run away inflation under control. Try that with today's Congress.

    Ford a waiter, Eagle Scout, combat veteran.
    And except maybe for Eagle Scout, none of these are pertinent. A McD waiting job doesn't give you the business
    experience some seem to think a presidential candidate should have. Nor, does combat veteran. It honorable. It says something about character, but has nothing to do with qualifications. Besides, he wasn't elected.

    Carter - Annapolis graduate, peanut farmer, exactly (see, you're getting the point).
    Maybe.

    Reagan, a lifeguard, sportscaster, and acting is a tough job.
    OK, I'll run down to our pool and find our next president. I'll run down to our radio station and find a DJ for candidate. Had you mentioned his term as a Union President we might have something to talk about.

    George HW was a senator's son but was shot down as a combat airman.
    Rich man's rich son. An accident of fate doesn't qualify someone for anything. But, his very long career of public service probably made him the most highly qualified candidate and president since WWII.

    Clinton (daft dodger isn't my choice for Commander in Chief) - gotta agree with you on that one - but for all of his many faults, debt as a percent of GDP fell during his two terms.
    The economic success of our country under Clinton might have been accident. We had two or three utterly new industries blossom during the 90s. Each, an outgrowth of government investment in the space program. 1) Popular demand for computers 2) birth of the internet for commercial applications 3) cell phone industry.

    This illustrates one important point. We'd be prosperous again if some new "killer" industry popped up.

    W Bush, Air National Guardsman, oilman, baseball team owner.
    Famously said, "Poor George, he was born with a silver foot in his mouth." The Air National Guard Service --if any-- has been highly controversial and there is plenty of evidence he didn't do his time.

    [quote ] Obama inherited much of the problem, but his lack of leadership is unacceptable. [/quote]

    He ran on a platform of compromise and promotion of bipartisanship. Naive.

    Finally, btw, it was a combination of cutting - not raising - taxes and cutting spending during the Truman and Eisenhower terms that began the post-war boom. [
    We had a much larger debt to GDP ratio when Truman and Ike were Presidents. These were the legacies of WWII and Korea. S&P didn't downgrade or threaten, or get involved in the political process. This is the same S&P which through its negligence put AAA ratings on a huge bunch of bonds that were junk. I know. I lost a bundle on CMOs I owned. All AAA until the moment they turned to junk.

    So all of you who are looking to "the rich" to surrender their wealth to incompetents should know that the total wealth of all of the billionaires in this country is less than ten percent of the national debt and even fails to cover the current deficit! Definite tax and spending cuts are the only proven way to save the economy from its current downward spiral.
    So, does that mean they deserve a huge pass? I don't think so. My hard working son and daughter in law, with a combined income that hardly gets them by pay 25% on each and every dollar they earn above an adjusted gross of about 60 K plus the SS and medicare components which add about 7% more. Thus their total taxation on a relatively meager earnings, hard earned, is double what the ultra wealthy pay on their investment income. The wealthy may not possess sufficient incomes to get us out of our debt crisis, but they sure as heck should be paying their dang way to the same tune extent we expect of a hard working middle class couple. That, they refuse to do.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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