SF-BART PD shut down cell service to prevent disruption to transportation.

This is a discussion on SF-BART PD shut down cell service to prevent disruption to transportation. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; BART itself pulled the plug and notified the providers after the fact. S.F. subway muzzles cell service during protest | InSecurity Complex - CNET News ...

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Thread: SF-BART PD shut down cell service to prevent disruption to transportation.

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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    SF-BART PD shut down cell service to prevent disruption to transportation.

    BART itself pulled the plug and notified the providers after the fact.
    S.F. subway muzzles cell service during protest | InSecurity Complex - CNET News

    Remember Minority Report? With the pre-cogs and they sometime got it wrong. This story reminds me of that. They didn't even wait for something to happen. You can have you cell service after the riots start in the UK or "repressed" Egypt, but in "free" America BART can shut down your ability to speak to others because they don't like what you might say.

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    Nobody is forced to ride BART, it's simply an optional mode of transportation. They offer cell phone service as a convenience, not a civil right.
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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    The protesters should wise up to this option & go with 2-way radios.
    Daddy Warcrimes likes this.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Nobody is forced to ride BART, it's simply an optional mode of transportation. They offer cell phone service as a convenience, not a civil right.
    It sounds like they were manipulating cell carriers equipment then notifying them after the fact. My point is when does this tactic become not ok, when it's just service providers equipment added to an otherwise high traffic poor reception area to supplement the network, that customers paid for?

    Should it be shut off as soon as a shooting happens so that nobody will want to tweet photo and video that the SFPD later used to recover evidence? When we shut off cell service to neighbor hoods where drug dealers might use phones to make their deals? When the entire city of LA gets the cell service shut off before the end of a game so nobody will riot the win or lost of a sporting event? When service gets shut off at political party national conventions? When the internet gets shut off for the whole country because of presidential "emergency"? Cut off cable TV if a 24 news station says something the government doesn't like? How long before it spreads to arrests when we think you're going to commit a crime; that's why there's NFA, that's why more than one long gun sale in the southwest now requires logging. Think you might do something so you will be punished before you have the chance to do it. It is the same logic that would justify shooting someone for legally OCing before their hand was near their gun because they could take out the gun and shoot the place up, is that not why CA state reps broke CA law and wore body armor on the debate floor? During the cold war many folks were tried in the court of public opinion and black listed because of what they might do, careers destroyed by government for having done nothing wrong. We let young children get body scanned in airports because they chose to fly, as well as surrender your right to keep arms (must surrender to the airline) let alone bear them. New technology and the bill of rights is out the window? Just because it's new technology doesn't mean it should be any less protected from Orwellian control.

    The UK gov. already asked twitter get shut off but the corporation took a stand, something BART didn't give the cell providers the chance to do. Government seems to forget that riots happened before we had cell phones and they can still happen without them; but I'm even more fearful of the riot that happens when government over action causes the riot in the first place, because weeks of looting setting city blocks ablaze will disrupt transportation service far more than a little protest, and in CA it's almost more expected to see that than on the steps of the capitol before a controversial bill. And I do wonder why it is that CNN, ABC and the Today show will give 20 minutes to fried butter, but this is not given 5 minutes to bring light to this in the evening news.

    If BART gave the service providers the option it might be a different story, if a riot had actually happened and the shut down was requested, it would be a different story. But that's not what happened the general public that uses mass transit was punished before anyone did anything wrong. The FBI already says following items in the FEMA "Are you ready?" guidelines (such as buying non-perishable food and water in bulk) is grounds for being placed on a watchlist.

    So where is the line in the sand? Some is me wanting to know where it sits legally as is, and some is me playing devils advocate.

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    I appreciate your sentiment, canav844. My point is that there is a line between being wary of one's government, and an over-reaching sense of entitlement.

    I'm rather fed up with people who are so dependant upon services from their government, that they begin to fabricate liberties that they believe they are entitled to.

    On other far side of the spectrum, I have no trust what-so-ever for either my local or federal government. They've demonstrated nothing but the ability to take things from me, hence I assume that they will continue to do so. As a result, I have a fierce sense of independance and am careful to discern the differences between luxuries that I can do without vs. liberties that I will not give up.

    In this case, cell phones can still take pictures and videos of events, which can be broadcast at a later point in time. There is a known problem with 'swarming', and there are well-known gang influences around BART. I'm not defending BART's actions, but I can see a legitimate concern that likley motivated the action. I actually prefer unlimited free enterprise where individuals are responsible for their actions. But I'm not going to get my panties in a wad if one mode of transportation ceases to provide cell phone coverage. The rules of capitalism still allow the individual to take their business elsewhere.
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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    As I see it, they are treating the symptom and not the root cause.

    Rioters without communications are still not good citizens.
    Deal with the criminals, not the communications.

    In the UK, they are the ultimate nanny state.
    Yet bums are rioting because, "The rich have more than I do, and I don't like it."
    It's time for a dose of reality. Cut off the government checks for anyone caught rioting.
    Drug test everyone receiving a government subsidy.

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    And if a riot started how would anyone report it??
    Bubbiesdad and Tzadik like this.
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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    And if a riot started how would anyone report it??
    A real phone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    A real phone?
    And one would find one of these outside of a home or office complex where? I haven't seen a "real phone" outside of the office setting in quite a while.
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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    And one would find one of these outside of a home or office complex where? I haven't seen a "real phone" outside of the office setting in quite a while.
    Don't worry. In a riot other people will notice. You don't need texting to report a riot.
    How do you suppose the world survived before the I-Phone?
    "Riot? I've got an app for that."

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    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Nobody is forced to ride BART, it's simply an optional mode of transportation. They offer cell phone service as a convenience, not a civil right.

    Does BART offer cell phone service, or is it a contract between you and your telecommunications service?

    Are they turning off boosters to the signal, which would be a service they provide, or are they activly jamming the signal?

    If the latter I would suggest that they are in violation of FCC regulations and federal law.
    Someone who is actually a lawyer please comment on this as I'm talking out my ass here.

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzadik View Post
    Does BART offer cell phone service
    No.
    I'm not in SF, but here's my take. Large cities will "allow" cell antennas in the tunnels
    as a convenience for the riders. Above ground, they cannot "shut off" cell service.
    My guess would be they turned off the antennas in the underground portion.

    It is possible to "Jam" cell phones, but I don't think that's practical on a long train. I once saw a jammer.
    I suspect they are illegal, but it was great for people who are always yakking when they should be working.
    About the size of a pack of cigarettes, push the button, and the guy on the phone suddenly stops and looks at his phone.
    Perfect for a theater.

    More:
    details emerged of Bay Area Rapid Transit officials' decision to cut off underground cellphone service for a few hours at several stations Thursday.
    Of course, some on the city council say it's "censorship" of free speech. It's SF after all, they'd vote for anarchy.
    So, if the police have any, ahem, testicular fortitude, (they don't, the chief is a lesbian) they would say, okay, turn on the cell antennas, but we will shoot to kill any looters.
    Last edited by Guns and more; August 15th, 2011 at 02:40 AM.

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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Why do they stomp on decent, honest, tax-paying citizens rights in an attempt to reduce the amount of mayhem a few spoiled, loud, obnoxious societal parasites can create, when God and John Browning have given us such useful automatic weapons?
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    So this situation presented itself as fall out from a legitimate shooting of a murder that shot at cops when they got near him doing "routine" checks of the transit system. The legitimate actions incited an instant gathering of locals, that prevented the officers from rendering aid to the man that shot at them, and the group also had some individuals tamper with evidence. I get that that puts them in a difficult position, and the way they handled the scene around the shooting (esp considering how hast it evolved) earned a lot of respect in my book.

    Shutting off the cell towers is punishment before an act has been committed. When it's a legitimate situation they're in a tough spot; when it's denial of service and nothing has happened, I see that as attempting to light the powder keg in an already tense situation. As I said before, had a riot started and they shut off the service it would be a totally different situation. They already had extra manpower in place in the affected areas to subdue impromptu events as they started up (and I'm sure to help cover the liability of denying 911 service to an area it is otherwise expected). Why feed the excuses for public distrust, when officers actions are already under such tight scrutiny?

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    This is a clear violation of FCC rules.... something nobody will care to enforce. Of course unless it was some private citizen doing it.

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