Is our democracy doomed?

This is a discussion on Is our democracy doomed? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Our Government is a Democratic Republic not a Constitutional Republic ....

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  1. #16
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    Our Government is a Democratic Republic not a Constitutional Republic.
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

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  3. #17
    Member Array ConcealedG30's Avatar
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    If we continue on our current path it is inevitable.

    You pretty much nailed it when you started the thread.

    Any body with a pulse(and sometimes a pulse ain't necesary) can vote.

    FYI our first goverment officials did not run for office they were selected by fellow citizens that knew their conduct.
    Anticipation of Death is Worse Than Death Itself.
    Psalm 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God;

  4. #18
    Member Array ConcealedG30's Avatar
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    Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is Einstiens Definition of Insanity

    Thats what we as a nation are doing.
    Anticipation of Death is Worse Than Death Itself.
    Psalm 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God;

  5. #19
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    When our nation was formed, the government was meant to be a cross section of the population.Farmers, shopkeepers, doctors, carpenters teachers were all supposed to help make up our government. Today, our government is 98% lawyers. The only thing these guys know how to do is argue. We need to get a more diverse element in the government.
    ksholder and atctimmy like this.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    In short, our problem isn't one of intelligence or lack of intelligence, rather we do have a huge problem with the fact that ordinary voters vote on matters of science policy when they may not know the science. We vote on matters of economic policy when we may not understand the economics. We vote on matters of social structure but may be quite ill informed on the things revealed by scholarly social science work. We vote on taxation but that too is a highly complex issue, plus we tend to vote our individual selfish interest which may be different from what is best for our collective interest as a nation. We argue about Central banks but few of us (myself included) really understand their function. Similarly, we cavalierly decide that our military is or is not too fat, bloated, or conversely too underfunded, but seldom are we actually in a position to judge whether we need more submarines or more special forces or less fighter jets, or more or less contractors.
    I don't think that is as much an issue as that of those elected are quickly overwhelmed with the intoxication of power they achieve when they arrive in Washington. Once they become part of the inner circle, if you will, even the strong of heart become quickly seduced by the alluring qualities of the ruling class and eventually abandon their constituents in favor of preserving their longevity as part of the ruling class. It's a corrupt town and breeds corruption. Every move they make is based first on getting reelected. Everything else is a shell game played in order to placate the masses.

    The biggest solution would be one of term limits. But that is something the elected would not stand for. Not on a federal level.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I don't think that is as much an issue as that of those elected are quickly overwhelmed with the intoxication of power they achieve when they arrive in Washington. Once they become part of the inner circle, if you will, even the strong of heart become quickly seduced by the alluring qualities of the ruling class and eventually abandon their constituents in favor of preserving their longevity as part of the ruling class. It's a corrupt town and breeds corruption. Every move they make is based first on getting reelected. Everything else is a shell game played in order to placate the masses.

    The biggest solution would be one of term limits. But that is something the elected would not stand for. Not on a federal level.
    Bark'n - while I generally agree with your post, I would add that the term limits need to be placed on bureaucrats that support the Congress and make up the agency staffs. In many cases, this is where the policy is being created, sometimes without and/or against Congress' stated intentions.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  8. #22
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    I firmly believe that there needs to be better standards to be permitted to vote. The current standard of have pulse but no brain just doesn't cut it. I also think that the founders had it right when the people elected their representatives only and that these representatives chose amongst themselves the president (much like a board electing the CEO). if I am not mistaken, the house of representatives was even supposed to elect the senate.

    Regarding some comments made in a previous post, raising the "entitlement debate", please realize that the nation is rapidly becoming, assuming it hasn't already become a Plutocratic Fascism that uses the false left-right paradigm as a distraction for what is really happening. The arguments presented, i.e. only 50% pay taxes, they want to take the money from those that earn it and redistribute it, etc are all right out of the play book from one of those parties. It isn't true. The statements are, however, effective propaganda based on half truths. The statement that "those who own the country should rule it" is their real objective and in fact, 95% of the wealth in this country is held by 5% of the population. This can't be allowed to stay this way and history has shown that when wealth is so heavily concentrated that the nations soon fall. This nation will be no exception. Like I said, the goal is for those that are pulling the strings to use the distractions of the left-right while they silently suck more of the wealth out of the country and into their hands. They are operating on a multi-national level and the US is only a pawn to them.

    Unless this country seriously changes it's ways, and I don't mean in the manner you see on the evening propaganda, er, news presented by the corporate controlled media it is doomed to fail.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber." ~Plato
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I don't think that is as much an issue as that of those elected are quickly overwhelmed with the intoxication of power they achieve when they arrive in Washington. Once they become part of the inner circle, if you will, even the strong of heart become quickly seduced by the alluring qualities of the ruling class and eventually abandon their constituents in favor of preserving their longevity as part of the ruling class. It's a corrupt town and breeds corruption. Every move they make is based first on getting reelected. Everything else is a shell game played in order to placate the masses.

    The biggest solution would be one of term limits. But that is something the elected would not stand for. Not on a federal level.
    I've seen Barkn's observation play out time and again, even at the local level of small time politics. 'Dinner with the mayor and suddenly they're star-struck. Then they try to explain to me the 'horse-trading' aspects of politics in condescending terms and why I'm naive. The problem is that folks who are not impressed with celebrity, don't go into politics. The nature of the job attracts the unqualified.

    IBTL.
    Tzadik likes this.
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  11. #25
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    Democracy

    In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

    "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

    From bondage to spiritual faith;
    From spiritual faith to great courage;
    From courage to liberty;
    From liberty to abundance;
    From abundance to complacency;
    From complacency to apathy;
    From apathy to dependence;
    From dependence back into bondage."

    The Obituary follows: Born 1776 - Died 2008
    It wouldn't hurt to read this several times.

    Professor Joseph Olson a professed moderate democrat, of Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election:

    Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29
    Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000
    Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million
    Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1

    Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the responsible taxpaying citizens of the country.

    Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

    Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
    "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

    If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal
    invaders called illegal's - and they vote - then we can say goodbye to the USA in less years then you want to imagine.

    This is truly scary! We are not a democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic . Someone should point this out to Obama. But of course we know he and too many others pay little attention to The Constitution.

    There’s a lot at stake on Nov 2012.
    Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.

  12. #26
    Member Array Naufragia's Avatar
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    Step one in recovering our republic from the mire of democracy should be the repeal of the 17th Amendment. This would put the states back in control of the US Senate, allowing it to resume its intended purpose as a brake on the thoughtless whims of the giddy, vulgar masses.
    Tzadik likes this.

  13. #27
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    A democracy?Are'nt we a Republic?(for now)!

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber." ~Plato
    \

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

    this!
    all you need to do to have insight is to study our past

  15. #29
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    Gentleman I have to say this has been one of the most intelligent threads I've read hear yet!

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
    Winston Churchill
    That might also be the best argument against politicians. So what gets left? Military dictatorships?
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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