Could you imagine if

This is a discussion on Could you imagine if within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; It is going to happen again. It is just a matter of who, where, and when. I don't expect it to be the big cities ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    It is going to happen again. It is just a matter of who, where, and when. I don't expect it to be the big cities this time. The have too many resources paid for with funds distributed in the last ten years. A Mumbai style attack in New York, with over 30,000 police officers, multiple SWAT teams etc is a losing proposition. A Mumbai style attack on a couple of outlet malls scattered around the country in counties that might only have five deputies working on a shift is more likely. The small towns where people feel safe because nothing ever happens there. The ones that obviously wont be targeted because they are too small. The ones that don't have the resources locally and have to call the state police for a SWAT team.

    Part of the problem is that we expect a certain standard of living in this country. One that many in the world are envious of. To maintain that standard of living our government negotiates trade agreements, unfair in the eyes of many, that give our corporations every advantage possible. Our corporations, to be able to sell those wonderful things we all just can't live without at a reasonable price and still make a profit, "exploit" workers in other countries. It doesn't matter that we are paying the workers three or five times what they made before. Because by doing this we are running the other local employers out of business. So we are evil for paying them less than we would an American worker. We are evil for paying them too much because no one locally can compete for the workers.

    For our electronics we "steal" raw materials from around the world. And we just can't win. Before we were "stealing" the raw materials no one was buying them (at least in the quantities we do) so the local economies were getting nothing. If we paid what some claim we should, the materials costs of the products become so high that the price goes with it and so demand falls off, so we don't "steal" as much from them and the local economy is in the toilet again.....

    Our government, to protect our interersts puts pressure on other governments. We either threaten to withhold foreign aide, or maybe hint at an arms deal with a not so friendly to them neighbor. We support dictatorships. We support insurgencies against governments we don't like. As Van Halen pointed out in a video, right now our government is doing things we think only other countries do.

    As I see it we only have a couple of options. Revise our expectations as to our standard of living and accept that maybe we can't have everything we want when we want it.
    Or, we can get serious ( Sun Tzu serious) about killing the people that hate us so much. That would mean being as subtle and half as diplomatic as Joe Stalin. It could very well also mean turning the majority of the civilized world against us. As has been demonstrated throughout history, it is not always the most powerful that win. Sometimes it is just a matter of being willing to do that which your opponent is not.

    Or we can accept it as the cost of doing business and just keep on doing what we have been doing.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    We had another 9/11 type of event right now?
    Quote Originally Posted by deadguy View Post
    Anyone stopped to wonder why we are only talking about this on the TENTH anniversary? Where were the worriers and concerned folks on anniverseries 2-9?
    I don't think that OP was talking about an anniversary attack, specifically.

    Dates of attacks around the world
    February 1993 World Trade Center
    1994 Bojinka, Philippine Airlines Flight 434
    1998 U.S.-embassy bombings
    2000 USS Cole bombing
    September 11, 2001, attacks
    October 2002 Bali bombings
    November 2003 Istanbul attacks
    February 2004 SuperFerry 14 bombing
    March 11, 2004 Madrid train bombings [911 days after the 9/11 attacks - though al-Queada never claimed responsibility]
    May 2004 Khobar massacre
    July 7, 2005 London transport bombings
    July 23, 2005 Sharm el-Sheikh attacks
    November 9, 2005 Amman hotel bombing
    April 2007 Algiers bombings
    February 2008 Kandahar bombing
    June 2, 2008 Danish-embassy bombing
    June 2009 Little Rock recruiting office shooting
    December 2009 Northwest Airlines Flight 253 - failed
    October 2010 cargo plane bomb plot - thwarted
    Another thwarted attack was reported on August 10 (9/11 - 1/1 = 8/10) 2006. Date cryptography? Looks like these attacks can happen or can be thwarted without too much attention to anniversary date details. IMO, you don't have anything to rant about, there.
    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    It is going to happen again. It is just a matter of who, where, and when. I don't expect it to be the big cities this time. The have too many resources paid for with funds distributed in the last ten years. A Mumbai style attack in New York, with over 30,000 police officers, multiple SWAT teams etc is a losing proposition. A Mumbai style attack on a couple of outlet malls scattered around the country in counties that might only have five deputies working on a shift is more likely. The small towns where people feel safe because nothing ever happens there. The ones that obviously wont be targeted because they are too small. The ones that don't have the resources locally and have to call the state police for a SWAT team.
    It isn't the MO of al-Queada to target economically- / symbolically-irrelevant places, here.

    BTW, I believe that the efforts of world and local governments and their forces are tamping down the effectiveness of terrorists and al-Queada, in particular. For that I am grateful.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    I think our FBI has done a superb of heading off attacks.
    However, if there was another attack,
    I suspect the administration would be hoping to pin it on a TEA Party extremest.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    But lets also not forget the attempts to bomb aircraft with explosive laden toner cartridges. And the plan discovered way back when about blowing up several airliners over the pacific ocean.

    Granted, Al-Queda previously has targeted major financial and population centers. But it is well publicized that we have taken measures to ensure that does not happen again. Economically speaking what would be the impact of random shopping centers around the country being hit the week before or the week of Thanksgiving? If I can shoot up or chemically attack the Susquehanna Valley Mall fifty some miles North of Harrisburg PA and kill dozens of people, why can't I target the mall by your house? Terrorism would no longer be a "big city" problem. It would be everyone's problem.

    Would we still see the Black Friday crowds? Would John and Jane Doe figure the potential savings are worth the risk? For most of the brick and mortar retailers the "holiday shopping season" from Thanksgiving to Christmas is anywhere from 25-40% of their annual sales. One estimate of Black Friday sales numbers for last year $10.69 billion. That was for a single day. If they can keep shoppers out of the malls for a week that would be a serious negative for our economy.
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  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Granted, Al-Queda previously has targeted major financial and population centers. But it is well publicized that we have taken measures to ensure that does not happen again. Economically speaking what would be the impact of random shopping centers around the country being hit the week before or the week of Thanksgiving? If I can shoot up or chemically attack the Susquehanna Valley Mall fifty some miles North of Harrisburg PA and kill dozens of people, why can't I target the mall by your house? Terrorism would no longer be a "big city" problem. It would be everyone's problem.
    It already is - have you seen the defecit and debt?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Would we still see the Black Friday crowds? Would John and Jane Doe figure the potential savings are worth the risk? For most of the brick and mortar retailers the "holiday shopping season" from Thanksgiving to Christmas is anywhere from 25-40% of their annual sales. One estimate of Black Friday sales numbers for last year $10.69 billion. That was for a single day. If they can keep shoppers out of the malls for a week that would be a serious negative for our economy.
    The shopping will still occur, it may migrate to the internet rather than in person at the malls, but it will occur unless people feel so uneasy that they simply won't spend any money. I doubt a rural mall attack in central PA will stop internet purchases.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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  7. #51
    Senior Member Array Geezer's Avatar
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    I expect it to be multiple attacks in different areas of the country. I would be very surprised if we, as a nation, would do anything. Well, maybe some golf or a vacation.

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    It would not be good. The current administration would handle it reasonably, but reasonably may not be good enough.

  9. #53
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    No, I wasn't talking about the anniversary date or even an specific type of attack, but it is what made me think about the question I did ask.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I think it may happen. And I think it would handled poorly by HOmeland Security, they would try to eliminate more freedoms and place more restrictions on Americans .. who would fight it, and ... in the meantime, the economy would 'sink' into a big hole.

    And, I think the paralysis of taking the battle to the people behind it while hiding in Pakistan, would disappear.

    I think there will be attacks, but... they may be much more limited. I'm hoping the reports that Al Qaeda is presently in disarray, are true.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    No, I wasn't talking about the anniversary date or even an specific type of attack, but it is what made me think about the question I did ask.
    Sixto thank you for acknowledging this.

    Just to clarify my rant. It wasn't directed at you specifically. The media takes anniversaries like this and plays them up big time. Sure they all pay tribute each year to the folks that died that day but this year especially this same scenario you brought up has been mentioned several times. The 10th seems to be a bigger focus than the "middle 8" anniversaries. Many more "what-ifs" are floating around this year than before. 2026 will be ridiculous assuming another attack doesn't happen before then.

    The American people, especially the haters of the current admin will be outraged if another one happens. More fingers will point than anyone can imagine. Blame Barack will forever be the new catch phrase (this is going to happen regardless IMO). Recent defense cuts will be a primary reason for the blame, mainly instigated by the media.

    As far as the response by the admin, it won't be much different than before. Identify the main target, develop a strategy, talk big and loud, threaten the attackers, rally the people and then send our boys out for another round of find the peanut in the poop. There won't be another Hiroshima type response. Too much PC and fewer leaders with full satchels. Not saying that is the correct response but it won't be one nonetheless.

    If it happens again, only the next one I believe will be on a larger scale, we may not be so resilient as a nation mentally and emotionally. If a proper and potent response isn't carried out by the admin I foresee a serious uprising by the American people wanting heads to roll and demanding something be done immediately.

    In every way it wouldn't be pretty.
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  12. #56
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    No worries, I took it as intended.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Which do you think will come first...a terrorist attack originating from outside our borders or the breakup of the United States from within when caucasians of European descent become a distinct minority? That's the next struggle that I anticipate. It's already starting with states instituting new immigration legislation and growing animosity toward Hispanics in some areas of the country. The next ten or twenty years could be some interesting times.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    Member Array ROFL SQUAD's Avatar
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    I believe we shall see some sort of event around the next presidential election. I pray not, but I believe the election will be suspended and some sort of martial law will ensue until things calm down.
    Geezer likes this.
    If you're going to carry one weapon, might as well carry two, because as the saying goes, "Two is one, and one is none."

    "Liberals can decline or whine, but I will still carry and conceal mine." - Cold Warrior. Excellent quote good sir!

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    Given the current political and economic climate, what would your thoughts be?
    My thoughts would be that the US government allowed it to happen-again. 911 happened because it was the policy of the US government and the airlines to give the hijackers the airplane: The airlines refused to pay for stronger cockpit doors. Mossad and other foreign intelligence agencies warned the US that giving in to hijacker demands was bad policy. US "intelligence agencies" had been warned that an attack using airliners was coming but nothing ever got done. It seems that the "intelligence agencies" were not talking to the FBI and vice versa. There was a turf war between the CIA and the FBI.

    After the first attack on the WTC all concerned went on their jolly way. No one gave any thought to the possibility of another attack on the WTC. i worked for many years in the middle east. Many Arabs considered the WTC the center of Jewish influence in the world. It should have been evident to the most casual of observers that another attack on the WTC was coming.

    The hype about our government keeping us safe is total trash. While old ladies and little kids are being hassled by GS-5s at airports, the bad guys are making their diabolical plans.

    Read about Rick Rescorla and his attempts to generate some concern about another attack on the WTC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROFL SQUAD View Post
    I believe we shall see some sort of event around the next presidential election. I pray not, but I believe the election will be suspended and some sort of martial law will ensue until things calm down.
    Not likely. There is no provision in the constitution for suspending or postponing a presidential election.

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