Thomas Jefferson...... - Page 2

Thomas Jefferson......

This is a discussion on Thomas Jefferson...... within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Whatever these fellows used when creating our country our current leaders have lost. My personal opinion, our country has walked away from God! We say ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array mwhartman's Avatar
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    Whatever these fellows used when creating our country our current leaders have lost. My personal opinion, our country has walked away from God! We say "God Bless America" and He has. However, I believe America has turned away from Him.
    Stubborn, Old School and ctr like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    The old saying was "God, guts, and guns made America great".
    All we have left of the three, are our guns. (for now)
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Makes one wonder how one of the most highly educated societies on earth could produce so many of such great ignorance? Perhaps if our society pursued classical educations that created free thinkers and the ability to reason, our time and resources of our young would be put to better use. Today, there is only the pursuit of personal gain for so many.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    Makes one wonder how one of the most highly educated societies on earth could produce so many of such great ignorance? Perhaps if our society pursued classical educations that created free thinkers and the ability to reason, our time and resources of our young would be put to better use. Today, there is only the pursuit of personal gain for so many.
    This is absolutely spot on. I would add to the proper education a manditory stint in the armed forces to instill discipline in our society and I think you would have a rabidly different population and country in about 50 years - for the better.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    I don't believe for one minute that the issue stems from ignorance, or lack of education, nor the style of education.
    We are in the condition we're in, because of greed, unmitigated greed and lust for power, and we have put up with it for decades, by saying "thats just politics" "they're all crooked" "one is no better than the other".
    We as citizens have empowered the crooked politicians with this type of cavalier attitude.
    Just my $.02
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    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Are you better off now than you were five minutes ago?
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    There are the likes of Thomas Jefferson and the founding fathers among us

    Yes there is the like of the founding fathers among us as I read this thread and a few choice others on this forum, I believe it would be quite interesting to have us gather together and debate with the media and political heads. Now that would be quite an evening!
    S&W 640-3

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    I don't believe for one minute that the issue stems from ignorance, or lack of education, nor the style of education.
    We are in the condition we're in, because of greed, unmitigated greed and lust for power, and we have put up with it for decades, by saying "thats just politics" "they're all crooked" "one is no better than the other".
    We as citizens have empowered the crooked politicians with this type of cavalier attitude.
    Just my $.02
    I can't say that we are on the same page as to agree with one another.

    Thomas Jefferson was arguably one of the best educated men in early America. Where did his values come from? Some were passed down from family, and some influenced by friends and mentors no doubt. I also believe that thru his classical education, which involved studying works of Greek, Latin, and many, many others, he was exposed to a variety of viewpoints.

    Also too, each and every day he made choices through-out his life, each choice either building upon those before, or taking a new direction. Character perhaps? So where did that come from, because I sure don't believe folks are born with greed, or a lust for power. Those things have always been present in our society, and too, historically, in just about every society that has ever been. So what could the difference be? Resistance to those traits, and an unwillingness to put up with it, as you mention our society currently does. Perhaps education is a factor, after all? For we become what we are taught, and embrace what be believe.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canav844 View Post
    Might want to adjust that to about 1880 or so, and probably even before that. But to soome degree concessions were inevitable as from the get go he was on the opposite side of the metaphorical table from federalist Adams. In his lifetime he saw Adams go on a power grab that's just been expanded upon time and again from successor after successor, which grew more and more into federal government growth over the years. Jefferson was a believer of John Locke's theories, and if you read Common Sense you'll see what it was that Jefferson attempted to avoid with some of the oh so famous documents he wrote.

    Documents written when it was thought we were an educated people, that were best capable of deciding what is right for ourselves, and that it was not up to government to guide us. He was a smart man but he expected his fellow countryman to educate themselves on the issues, long before we had internet. Jefferson was smart but he was not alone, and in to learn what his influences were and what the political culture was then, and the core issues still being the same just on a different topic of the day. It also offers some unique perspective on our current events.
    As a whole, we do not educate ourselves anymore... sure, we peruse the net and/or align ourselves with one cable news outlet or another, or we are "dittoheads," screaming liberals, Right wing rednecks, RINOS, DINOS or whatever...

    Please remember, I said "as a whole." And, our leaders know this... they are trained to speak to the common denominator. The common denominator carries the most votes. They treat us as though we are not educated on the issues. We are educated on our side of the issues that concern us. We barely listen to the "other side."

    There is little "discussion" any more. It is all diatribe. and it makes it very difficult to sort wheat from chaff.

    Simpler times.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwhartman View Post
    Whatever these fellows used when creating our country our current leaders have lost. My personal opinion, our country has walked away from God! We say "God Bless America" and He has. However, I believe America has turned away from Him.
    By all accounts they used copious quantities of liquor and wine.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    As a whole, we do not educate ourselves anymore... sure, we peruse the net and/or align ourselves with one cable news outlet or another, or we are "dittoheads," screaming liberals, Right wing rednecks, RINOS, DINOS or whatever...

    Please remember, I said "as a whole." And, our leaders know this... they are trained to speak to the common denominator. The common denominator carries the most votes. They treat us as though we are not educated on the issues. We are educated on our side of the issues that concern us. We barely listen to the "other side."

    There is little "discussion" any more. It is all diatribe. and it makes it very difficult to sort wheat from chaff.

    Simpler times.
    Very insightful. We like fast food information, but are unwilling to take the time for the 5 course dinner that provides true knowledge and allows for intelligent debate. Debate as in discussion, not arguing.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    Makes one wonder how one of the most highly educated societies on earth could produce so many of such great ignorance? Perhaps if our society pursued classical educations that created free thinkers and the ability to reason, our time and resources of our young would be put to better use. Today, there is only the pursuit of personal gain for so many.
    Well put. But nowadays a school that wants to spend its money library books, on literature classes, on Latin classes or foreign language education, on trig, on Newtonian physics and mechanics, gets run over by citizens who want a bigger football stadium and a new running track. I bet that down the road from me they spend more money mowing the lawn and keeping up the tennis courts than they do on library books. And no, Nook and Kindle don't make books obsolete. Close, but not there yet.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    Very insightful. We like fast food information, but are unwilling to take the time for the 5 course dinner that provides true knowledge and allows for intelligent debate. Debate as in discussion, not arguing.
    It takes a great deal of effort to educate one's self. The alternative is to get taught. Unfortunately, what lacks most in "schooling" today is training in critical thinking.

    It's one thing to hear that G.Washington had wooden teeth and chopped down a cherry tree and was honest about it (in grade school). It's another to discover for yourself that the teeth may not have been wooden, but bone, that there was no "cherry tree incident," and so on... And about many such things it is of little matter... But if you are not willing to learn the truth about wooden teeth, what is your motivation to try to understand the Federal Reserve Bank..?

    Just listen to what "they" tell you... after all, life is good, you got the big screen, smart phone, and the convertible, it won't effect you... will it?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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