odd incident this week...not fun. - Page 2

odd incident this week...not fun.

This is a discussion on odd incident this week...not fun. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This is the type of thing OC spray was made for. It would comfort you at a time like this to have a non lethal ...

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  1. #16
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    This is the type of thing OC spray was made for. It would comfort you at a time like this to have a non lethal option in case he got too close.
    DefConGun and Chaplain Scott like this.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post

    Calling 911 while the man is advancing you may also be risky.
    Having been in a situation recently, I quickly realized that attempting to retrieve a cell phone and place a call not only would be physically risky, but it could also further enrage the adversary. What was not physical could quickly become so if he tried to knock the cell phone out of your hand or otherwise prevent you from making the call.

    In my "episode" I put my hand in my pocket intending to retrieve the cell phone, then instantly thought the better of it, and out of awkwardness left my hand in my pocket. That however proved beneficial as the nut suddenly
    turned pale, eyes wide, and ran. A witness wanted to know, "do you just shoot them in TX," and I suppose the
    aggressor must have similarly misinterpreted my going for the cell phone as going for a gun--- hence his rapid "adios."

    Anyway, while we often read here to use the cell phone, in the heat of things that is not so practical and could be endangering. You have to keep focused on your adversary.
    DefConGun likes this.
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  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    I'm sure your BIL pulling up & parking at just that moment probably discombobulated you a bit more, but you walked away without Mr. Toolbox boiling over & didn't have to bring the police into it. Not being there, I can't say whether a defensive stance with pepper spray in hand would have been a good idea, but I'd have definitely had mine concealed in my hand in case TB got too close.

    An unwelcomed adrenaline rush does tend to leave a bad aftertaste.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    If I'm legally parked he can go suck on a lollipop
    I agree, if you are not in his posted parking spot why are you apologizing? Yes, I understand the whole " we shouldn't elscalate the situation when we are carrying" thing and we certainly shouldn't stir the pot and make the situation worse but that doesn't mean we have to bow down either? To each his own i guess. I think would have just told this guy to have a nice day and simply go about my business. If he wants to ramp it up a notch that is up to him.

    Of course this is just my opinion and I'm sure I will hear differing opinions very shortly.
    ErnieNWillis likes this.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm rider View Post
    I agree, if you are not in his posted parking spot why are you apologizing? Yes, I understand the whole " we shouldn't elscalate the situation when we are carrying" thing and we certainly shouldn't stir the pot and make the situation worse but that doesn't mean we have to bow down either?
    You are correct in that we shouldn't have to bow down. At the same time, being relatively new the carry culture, I have been reading as much material as I can get my hands on and this topic comes up quite frequently in one form or another. As I have come to understand it, it comes down to this: when carrying a gun, you have the power to be judge, jury, and executioner. When you hold that power, you are required and expected to hold yourself to a higher standard. When you carry concealed, you have knowledge and power that your opponent is not aware of, power that more than likely puts you at a enormous tactical advantage. Along with that power comes the responsibility to not raise up to verbal or gesture insults, and perhaps even slightly more (thinking of soft hands contact). The reason being because the consequence can be final, especially for your opponent.

    If it did come to an SD situation and especially if you are in a must retreat locale, but even if your not, do you want a jury to hear that if you had just shown humility, regardless of how degrading it may have been, that this toolbox, er ... I mean honest, hard working, father and husband may still be there for his family?

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Wow, I appluad your presence of mind in a VERY stressfull situation...I don't know that I or many could have handled that any better. Did you file a police report?

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Having been in a situation recently, I quickly realized that attempting to retrieve a cell phone and place a call not only would be physically risky, but it could also further enrage the adversary. What was not physical could quickly become so if he tried to knock the cell phone out of your hand or otherwise prevent you from making the call.

    In my "episode" I put my hand in my pocket intending to retrieve the cell phone, then instantly thought the better of it, and out of awkwardness left my hand in my pocket. That however proved beneficial as the nut suddenly
    turned pale, eyes wide, and ran. A witness wanted to know, "do you just shoot them in TX," and I suppose the
    aggressor must have similarly misinterpreted my going for the cell phone as going for a gun--- hence his rapid "adios."

    Anyway, while we often read here to use the cell phone, in the heat of things that is not so practical and could be endangering. You have to keep focused on your adversary.
    Actually that's an important thing to note. I didn't even think to mention it. I had my cell phone IN MY BACK POCKET the entire time. In the heat of it, that phone never even entered my mind. Now that I've had time to think about it since you mentioned it, I don't think the cell would have helped at all anyway. In my amped up state, I wouldn't have even been able to unlock the darn thing much less make a call. Very fine motor skills were completely out the window.

    As to the H2H comment earlier, yes, I'm fairly confident in my abilities(although a bit rusty as of late of which I am ashamed - work taking too much of my time lately) in dealing with this guy if need be, but I was trying to avoid it if at all possible. It's funny. In training classes you can spar with someone and you're not really going to be able to replicate that same adrenaline dump because at the end of the day, you know they're not going to try to kill you. It's a whole different ball game when you're not in some training class.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array DaRedneck's Avatar
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    You did good. It's a matter of time before someone puts that whacko in his place.
    "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." - Leonardo da Vinci

  9. #24
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    I think you did very well trying to de-escalate the situation. The man who accosted you obviously has "issues", as reported by the other customers. The only thing I could add is that I think it would have been prudent to call 911 afterwards and get this guy's behavior on record--in the long run it may not help, but I'm pretty sure that it couldn't hurt--esp. if the other customers also add their 2 cents about experiences with Mr. nutjob.

    Now that you are forewarned about him, it seems pretty clear that he will continue this form of behavior. You will encounter him again. Could I recommend a can of oc/cs w/ dye in a front pocket? He comes out for round #2, cursing, yelling, verbally threatening and advancing aggressively; then out comes the oc/cs and he gets one warning: "Sir, you are threatening me, stop right there!" he advances and PPSSSTT........then, (assuming it works on Mr. Nutjob), you dial 911 while he is trying to get the OC out of his eyes.......

    If he continues aggressing after being sprayed, well, you have other options at that point, as he has pretty conclusively demonstrated his ill will and aggresive nature.......
    ErnieNWillis likes this.
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Zsnake's Avatar
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    Sounds like just another day in the life of a Northern Virginia resident to me. LOL

    Lots of short fuses out there.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zsnake View Post
    Sounds like just another day in the life of a Northern Virginia resident to me. LOL

    Lots of short fuses out there.
    Heh...ain't it the truth!
    Guarantee #1 - Traffic Nightmare
    Guarantee #2 - Short fuses(probably due to the traffic nightmare)
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    If I'm legally parked he can go suck on a lollipop
    You got that right. Life is to short to put up with this kind of crap....OP you are a much more patient man than I. I commend you on that.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    There's another very important consideration. It is very possible the nut-job could have been armed too. So it is always good to try to de-escalate. I'm pretty good at taking verbal abuse and typically don't take it as personally as other people do. In situations like this I always tell myself, "I don't know this person and don't really care what he/she thinks of me. I have no reason to impress them." If I stand my ground with a nutjob like that, he may pull a gun and then we're both shooting at each other.

    However, I do take exception sometimes to stories I hear about crimes being committed and people refusing to escalate for fear of retribution. I think there is a time and place that as good citizens, we have to stand our ground. If somebody was trying to rape/rob/kidnap/assault me or an innocent person nearby I think we have a duty to society to try to put a stop to it. But I just can't see escalating something over verbal assault.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm rider View Post
    I agree, if you are not in his posted parking spot why are you apologizing? Yes, I understand the whole " we shouldn't elscalate the situation when we are carrying" thing and we certainly shouldn't stir the pot and make the situation worse but that doesn't mean we have to bow down either? To each his own i guess. I think would have just told this guy to have a nice day and simply go about my business. If he wants to ramp it up a notch that is up to him.

    Of course this is just my opinion and I'm sure I will hear differing opinions very shortly.

    While reading this I was imagining myself in this situation. Before I started carrying I would have met Mr. Attitude with an attitude of my own and gladly told him to bring it on and engaged him with fists and feet-a-flying. Now not so much. I sure dont want to be seperated from my family with a lengthy prison sentence. I would have appologized and moved the first time but not afterwards. I would have told the guy that I didnt want any trouble but I had business to attend to at the neighboring business and that I'd be more than happy to invite local LEO to settle any issue he had with me personally. If he invaded my personal space and threatened me I'd deal with him. I'm not going to have some a-hole prevent me from going about my business. But thats just me.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    If he invaded my personal space and threatened me I'd deal with him. I'm not going to have some a-hole prevent me from going about my business. But thats just me.
    And this brings us, almost full circle in terms of handling someone who is engaging in assault and escalating from a verbal confrontation. Still not grounds for lethal weapon deployment, but definitely grounds for a forceful response and exactly why some form of tool other than a gun is required as well as training with it, even if that tool is your own hands and feet.

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