The thin veneer of civilization...

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    The thin veneer of civilization...

    ...is it disappearing?

    More than one in ten (over the age of 12!)are taking prescription drugs for depression.
    Identity theft is skyrocketing
    Gang membership is up over 40% in the last 2 years
    Firebombing a Taco Bell because there wasn't enough meat on a chalupa?

    Here's an article that posits 22 "signs" that the world is going to Hades in a handbasket...

    LINK

    While I don't believe the sky is falling just yet, I do think that the superstructure which holds it in place is showing some definite signs of weakening.
    It could be worse.
    "A law that burdens the exercise of an enumerated constitutional right by simply making that right more difficult to exercise cannot be considered “reasonably adapted” to a government interest, no matter how substantial that interest may be."
    Wollard V Sheridan

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    I believe the manual that says it's going to get worse before it gets better.

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    so true !!!
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    The amount violence is directly proportional to that amount of people that know nothing about respect.
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    When a society no longer has a common background, a common culture, and a common set of values, that society no longer has anything in common. We are almost there - another generation at the outside.
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    Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    ...is it disappearing?

    More than one in ten (over the age of 12!)are taking prescription drugs for depression.
    Identity theft is skyrocketing
    Gang membership is up over 40% in the last 2 years
    Firebombing a Taco Bell because there wasn't enough meat on a chalupa?

    Here's an article that posits 22 "signs" that the world is going to Hades in a handbasket...

    LINK

    While I don't believe the sky is falling just yet, I do think that the superstructure which holds it in place is showing some definite signs of weakening.
    See my signature line.
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    ...is it disappearing?

    More than one in ten (over the age of 12!)are taking prescription drugs for depression.
    Why is this bad? Are they over-prescribed? Probably, but many drugs are. I think it's great that we've reached a point where people suffering from depression don't have to just "deal with it".

    Identity theft is skyrocketing
    Seriously? This is a sign of the apocalypse?

    Here's an article that posits 22 "signs" that the world is going to Hades in a handbasket...

    LINK
    You are quoting a site dedicated to selling panicky people gold and silver to prove that we all should all be panicky people.

    While I don't believe the sky is falling just yet, I do think that the superstructure which holds it in place is showing some definite signs of weakening.
    Maybe, but none of what you quoted supports that. Why didn't you note that violent crime is at historic lows in our country?

    I haven't had a chance to read this book, but I've seen some interviews, and he makes a convincing case that we are actually living in the most peaceful time in human history. Amazon.com: The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined (9780670022953): Steven Pinker: Books

    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    When a society no longer has a common background, a common culture, and a common set of values, that society no longer has anything in common. We are almost there - another generation at the outside.
    When has our country ever been a pure bred? We're a country of mutts, always have been. It just so happens that when we have economic trouble, we tend to look outward for blame. Now it's Mexicans, before it was the Irish, Italians, etc.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    See my signature line.
    I agree with your signature line... but we're getting close to the bottom of the bell curve again... Will we (USA) fall into ruin... Probably not. But it could get real real ugly, er... uglier.... before we start cresting again.
    It could be worse.
    "A law that burdens the exercise of an enumerated constitutional right by simply making that right more difficult to exercise cannot be considered “reasonably adapted” to a government interest, no matter how substantial that interest may be."
    Wollard V Sheridan

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    Why is this bad? Are they over-prescribed? Probably, but many drugs are. I think it's great that we've reached a point where people suffering from depression don't have to just "deal with it".



    Seriously? This is a sign of the apocalypse?



    You are quoting a site dedicated to selling panicky people gold and silver to prove that we all should all be panicky people.



    Maybe, but none of what you quoted supports that. Why didn't you note that violent crime is at historic lows in our country?

    I haven't had a chance to read this book, but I've seen some interviews, and he makes a convincing case that we are actually living in the most peaceful time in human history. Amazon.com: The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined (9780670022953): Steven Pinker: Books



    When has our country ever been a pure bred? We're a country of mutts, always have been. It just so happens that when we have economic trouble, we tend to look outward for blame. Now it's Mexicans, before it was the Irish, Italians, etc.
    All of what you say here is true. All of what the huckster selling gold and silver says is equally true. Is it the end of the world as we know it? probably not... but then, for all this peace breaking out as per The Better Angels, violent crime is on the uptick in (ahem) "civilized countries" like Britain, and it certainly seems as though we are actually seeing more of it here... could just be the press, though.
    It could be worse.
    "A law that burdens the exercise of an enumerated constitutional right by simply making that right more difficult to exercise cannot be considered “reasonably adapted” to a government interest, no matter how substantial that interest may be."
    Wollard V Sheridan

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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    The link is to a site that is promoting purchasing gold and silver; they are partially vested in the notion of economic/social failure. That said I do think our society is fragile and becoming more so every year.
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I agree with your signature line... but we're getting close to the bottom of the bell curve again... Will we (USA) fall into ruin... Probably not. But it could get real real ugly, er... uglier.... before we start cresting again.
    Oak-- Two advantages of being old is I have a memory that spans at least 60 years if not 70; plus memory of all the stuff mom and dad and grandma and grandpa told me.

    Being a "fella" who almost decided to be a HS History teacher, I've had my share of formal education in history and more importantly, I've been an on and off avid reader of everything from historical novels to biography.

    We certainly are having our problems these days, but there has been NO time in our country's history when we didn't have our problems. What we are going through is the small stuff compared to lots we have been through in the past.

    We have made some awful mistakes, but we haven't yet approached a time to panic.

    1) I like it a lot better than when we were under constant threat of nuclear war at any moment.
    2) I like it a lot better that most folks receive their appropriate civil rights and suspects don't get beaten to near death in the jail house; as was once not too atypical.
    3) I like it interest rates aren't 13% on home mortgages.
    4) I like it that most of the countries in S. America are actually not dictatorships of the extreme right or fighting civil wars from the counter of the extreme left.
    5) I like it that there really is relative peace in most of the world.
    6) I love our computer age and the changes and advances in communication.
    7) I love the advances we've made in medical diagnosis through electronics and advanced imaging.
    8) I am cheered that we are aware of and attempting to control or regulate or outlaw a variety of things folks used to ignore or laugh at: drunk driving; child porn; date rape.
    9) I'm thrilled that our government actually tries to keep our air and water clean and safe; our workers safe; neither issue having received any attention until the Nixon administration.

    I can go on and on. We certainly have a political system that was designed for the horse and buggy days and not for the early 21st century; it certainly isn't doing anywhere near what the country needs to be done, but everyday our justice system holds trials and hearings; our numerous guardians guard us.

    We are far from done in. Hurting, yup. We just lost between 6 and 12 trillion dollars of individual wealth through a combination of preventable greed and stupidity, but we are not in a depression or technically in a recession.

    We are going to recover if we don't do stupid things in fear and panic.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    Why is this bad? Are they over-prescribed? Probably, but many drugs are. I think it's great that we've reached a point where people suffering from depression don't have to just "deal with it".
    "Just dealing with it" as you put it, used to be known as being an adult and acting like one. This country started becoming over medicated at the same time the Libs started systematically trying to destroy the traditional family unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    Seriously? This is a sign of the apocalypse?
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    You are quoting a site dedicated to selling panicky people gold and silver to prove that we all should all be panicky people.
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    Maybe, but none of what you quoted supports that. Why didn't you note that violent crime is at historic lows in our country?

    I haven't had a chance to read this book, but I've seen some interviews, and he makes a convincing case that we are actually living in the most peaceful time in human history. Amazon.com: The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined (9780670022953): Steven Pinker: Books
    I'll have to look into this book.

    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    When has our country ever been a pure bred? We're a country of mutts, always have been. It just so happens that when we have economic trouble, we tend to look outward for blame. Now it's Mexicans, before it was the Irish, Italians, etc.
    This country has never been pure bred. But what has changed a great deal is this: immigrants used to come here and do everything they could to become AMERICANS. They strove to fit in. They spoke English. They learned the American traditions and culture. Now, they do everything they can to change AMERICA into a remote version of the country they fled. They refuse to learn English. They demand that drivers tests and street signs be printed in their home language. They celebrate their own traditions and holidays and disparage American culture and holidays.

    And while it may be true that we tend to look outward to blame someone when the economy tanks, this problem with predominantly Spanish immigrants trying to turn the Southwest of the USA into Mexico have long predated the bad economic times we find ourselves in now. In fact, this same thing has been going on through economic highs and lows for many years now.
    Last edited by TN_Mike; November 17th, 2011 at 01:22 PM.
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    Member Array whiteox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post

    This country has never been pure bred. But what has changed a great deal is this: immigrants used to come here and do everything they could to become AMERICANS. They strove to fit in. they spoke English. They learned the American traditions and culture. Now, they do everything they can to change AMERICA into a remote version of the country they fled. They refuse to learn English. they demand that drivers tests and street signs be printed in their home language. they celebrate their own traditions and holidays and disparage American culture and holidays.

    And while it may be true that we tend to look outward to blame someone when the economy tanks, this problem with predominantly Spanish immigrants trying to turn the Southwest of the USA into Mexico have long predated the bad economic times we find ourselves in now. In fact, this same thing has been going on through economic highs and lows for many years now.
    Chinatown, Koreatown, Little Italy, St. Patrick's Day Parade, Brighton Beach (Russians). It always takes a generation or two for folks to assimilate. It's the fact that they're coming from Africa and South Asia is the only difference now. Heck, there are still towns in North Dakota where the old-timers are speaking 19th Century German that their parents spoke when they emigrated from Europe.
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    I believe "Civilization" comes in cycles of good and bad. We cannot seem to keep any specific type of civilization for very long, then it lapses into anarchy. We always seem to come out of the Dark Ages though without totally destroying ourselves in the process.

    We may be into or headed for a bad cycle of it, I just don't know. All we can do is to be as prepared for the worst that is humanly possible. The problem is that we sometimes become totally dependent on others to provide our basic necessities rather than be independent to get them. That is what I believe is the downside to a civilization where you forget how to fend for yourself and have to allow someone else to provide.
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