Is this justice?

This is a discussion on Is this justice? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard No excuse for applauding any form of prisoner abuse, whether it is guard on prisoner or prisoner on prisoner. It is ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    No excuse for applauding any form of prisoner abuse, whether it is guard on prisoner or prisoner on prisoner. It is the responsibility of the holding authority to keep good order. When they are proven to be unable or unwilling to do that, they are as guilty of denying justice as they were supposed to be of giving it out.

    I seriously doubt that even half the sex offenders who allegedly molested children have been honestly convicted and are factually guilty. It is just too easy to lie about these things and be believed. Nowadays kids start --with parental encouragement-- to complain of being sexually abused just because mom wanted revenge on some unrelated matter. In other instances folks end up in prison on these charges in what are clearly consent related incidents that the law simply refuses to acknowledge.

    I know a man who served time for having sex with someone half his age. And he is married with children too. A stupid thing, yes. Consensual--- you better believe it, in the eyes of everyone but the law.

    The only punishment people deserve is the lawful punishment handed down by a court after a fair trial. Prison justice handed out by other convicts isn't justice . It is a crime.
    Hopy - would you still feel this way if one of his victims were one of your grand-kids and you knew he was guilty?
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Hopy - would you still feel this way if one of his victims were one of your grand-kids and you knew he was guilty?
    Actually, about 40 years back a man molested both my 9 year old nephew and his friend. They'd biked over to a construction site they had been told to not go to; and were caught.

    The molester threatened them both that if they told he would come and kill his family. Apparently the kid walked around too scared to say anything for about 2 weeks, but blurted it out to a maid (Rose) who was temporarily taking care of the kids while my sister and BIL were overseas on vacation. We think he thought he saw Big Jim's car go by the street and that caused him to tell out of added fear.

    I lived a mile away, but my sister preferred to hire the lady to take care than to bother me.

    So, I came home from work and called the house to check on things, and Rose's voice was 3 octaves too high as she said no, to my routine question, "is everything O.K."

    When I drove up there were 3 squad cars in front and the police had just finished talking to my nephew.

    A short while later I told my nephew that the police had arrested Big Jim," and the poor kid not understanding, got hysterical because he thought he had done something wrong and was going to be arrested. So, I had to explain to him that "he didn't do anything wrong." And that was something I don't think he quite believed.

    Well, Big Jim had a long record of this stuff. So, naturally, he was immediately let out. And that in a community where our friend was the Mayor, the police chief knew we were the Mayor's friends, and a big shot lawyer was my sister's pal.

    Yes, I've had some experience with these creeps affecting "my" kids (and my nephew was my kid for this purpose).

    I still think half the convictions for child molestation are B S. Look up McMartin Pre School case (McMartin Preschool Abuse) Trials of 1987 to 1990. It was one of several in an time of public hysteria. Accusations are easy to make and hard to refute.

    n any case, the meeting out of justice comes from a well run orderly corrections facility with honest corrections staff; not from other prisoner's violence.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  4. #18
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    I'm very sorry about what happened, Hopy. It was with some hesitation that I even mentioned something as personal as your grand-kids, but I was curious as to your personal perspective.

    I pray that your family continues to heal.
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  5. #19
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    Ricky Lynn Cooper should have asked for MERCY, John Michael New may have given him JUSTICE.

    Just my opinion,,,, free of charge.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    No excuse for applauding any form of prisoner abuse, whether it is guard on prisoner or prisoner on prisoner. It is the responsibility of the holding authority to keep good order. When they are proven to be unable or unwilling to do that, they are as guilty of denying justice as they were supposed to be of giving it out.

    I seriously doubt that even half the sex offenders who allegedly molested children have been honestly convicted and are factually guilty. It is just too easy to lie about these things and be believed. Nowadays kids start --with parental encouragement-- to complain of being sexually abused just because mom wanted revenge on some unrelated matter. In other instances folks end up in prison on these charges in what are clearly consent related incidents that the law simply refuses to acknowledge.

    I know a man who served time for having sex with someone half his age. And he is married with children too. A stupid thing, yes. Consensual--- you better believe it, in the eyes of everyone but the law.

    The only punishment people deserve is the lawful punishment handed down by a court after a fair trial. Prison justice handed out by other convicts isn't justice . It is a crime.

    With all due respect... Sitting back squarely on the center of the fence and touting the obvious right and wrong of a situation is no more right than the folks "myself included" that tout how the guy got what he deserved. The fact of life is simple; there are bad people out there, some are in jail and others will join them once they get caught doing the evil that they do. I'll not subject myself to the right and wrong of an emotional roller-coaster that some loser brought solely on himself and of his own accord.

    With that said. Would I have killed him, no, am I glad he's gone by the hand of an equally violent individual, hell yes, and for me that's a fitting end to a monster that preyed of the innocents of a child. In fact, I hope he died screaming.

    Again, no disrespect intended, just a differing point of view...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    I'm very sorry about what happened, Hopy. It was with some hesitation that I even mentioned something as personal as your grand-kids, but I was curious as to your personal perspective.

    I pray that your family continues to heal.
    No problem. You'd be amazed at how resilient people are; especially kids. My nephew and his friend, both now in their late 40s with families of their own are fine.

    In truth, back then, this crime was not treated very seriously. As I said, "Big Jim" was quickly released despite a long record and disappeared. The kids went back to doing what 9 year old kids do; play and go to school. One had a long military career and the other has been a successful business man. No mental illness in either that I now of.

    Similarly, my sister in-law who was violently raped and nearly killed about 13 years back has recovered and lives a normal life with no obvious long lasting effects.

    I'm not saying that these crimes should be trivialized or that the BGs should get off, or get off with a light sentence. What I am saying is 1) punishment is not the right of your fellow prisoners except in a poorly run institution where prisoners control things, not the guards; 2) people get over these things. They won't necessarily become emotional wrecks with ruined lives unless someone plants in their mind that this is the proper reaction to the event. Criminalizing and catastrophizing every thing in life is not good for all of us.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Had he not committed the crime he would not have been doing the time, and may still be alive. Every decision has consequences, and his were fatal.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  9. #23
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    For all we know, Ricky Cooper might have been killed because he snored too loudly.[/QUOTE]

    I went to the Dr. and he asked me if I ever stop breathing during sleep. I told him that my wife usually removes the pillow from my face when that happens.
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  10. #24
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    Believe me, there are a lot of innocent people in prison related to numerous different types of charges, including sex crimes. Guitly is perception, not necessarily reality .... and DA's who can twist the system and will go to any level to gain guilty pleas from innocent people. Truth, is not an objective in a courtroom. Cynical a bit, I'm sure.... but I've lived in the belly of the beast and seen too many things...... so it's a deserved cynicism of the system.

    Here, 96.5% of the cases of molestation, are a result of a divorce and the woman (via advice from her attorney) claiming the father molested her kids. Eventually, about all of them .... are found baseless, etc..... but in the meantime they lost their jobs, their money, their home, their belonging, their friends, their reputations, etc. And the Judge will then not change custody from the mother who's had them this whole time... and a father who now has no means of supporting them. Ruined.

    I was asked to dig into one case, where the girl had accussed her father of molestation and he was in prison. She had accussed her 1st step-dad , and he was in prison. And, she tried it on her 2nd step-dad, but .... there were people who witnessed her blackmailing him .... to buy her a Mustang for her 16th birthday or she would accuse him to.... then tried to tell mommy he had molested her (when they were there and knew better). Within 6 months the "truth" came out and the father and 1st step-dad's convictions were over-turned and they were released.... she had made it up. She was charged, and went into a juvenile facility.

    The other thing is that most sex offenses have nothing to do with molestation of children. But everyone assumes they are.

    However... there are real scum bags out there who are perverts, and I hope all of them rot in hell... and die a miserable death. And I put mothers or fathers who kill their children, ahead of them on the list to take the ride.
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  11. #25
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    Here's the answer to those wondering why he was killed and how he was mutilated.

    http://www.aikenstandard.com/State/m...hru-12-03-0515
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  12. #26
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    I'd say 40 years ago, This kind of crime would only happen before he got caught, Not after ; )
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  13. #27
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    In my not so humble opinion, it was a mercy killing, but it was not justice. To me, prison is a fate worse than death.
    If the so-called prison justice system actually worked, there would be no need for sex offender registries.
    A prison system does not, will not, and can not work. Locking someone up for X amount of time in that sort of environment is not going to accomplish anything positive, nor is it going to right any wrong or bring about lasting change. It is a system that is going to do one thing: self perpetuate. The whole concept of serving X amount of time is fundamentally flawed, putting emphasis on quantity, not on results or focus on change, reparation, or redemption. While there are some individuals for whom the only safe option is for them to be removed from the general populous forever, the existing prison system is a really poor way to go about it.

    The only thing the prison system does is satisfy a desire for vengeance as demonstrated by many of the comments in this thread.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    In my not so humble opinion, it was a mercy killing, but it was not justice. To me, prison is a fate worse than death.

    A prison system does not, will not, and can not work. Locking someone up for X amount of time in that sort of environment is not going to accomplish anything positive, nor is it going to right any wrong or bring about lasting change. It is a system that is going to do one thing: self perpetuate. The whole concept of serving X amount of time is fundamentally flawed, putting emphasis on quantity, not on results or focus on change, reparation, or redemption. While there are some individuals for whom the only safe option is for them to be removed from the general populous forever, the existing prison system is a really poor way to go about it.

    The only thing the prison system does is satisfy a desire for vengeance as demonstrated by many of the comments in this thread.
    'Appreciate you descending from the moral high ground to associate with us common folk. So what solution do you propose? Rehabilitation perhaps?
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  15. #29
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    "Justice" is a very subjective word.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    'Appreciate you descending from the moral high ground to associate with us common folk. So what solution do you propose? Rehabilitation perhaps?
    Well seeing as you had to predicate your question with a snide remark, lets flip your question around. What do you hope to accomplish with prison?

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