Cdn. Judge tells Cop to lose his gun.

Cdn. Judge tells Cop to lose his gun.

This is a discussion on Cdn. Judge tells Cop to lose his gun. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Let me know if I used the wrong forum. I thought you guys might be interested. This is on the weirdest things I've read in ...

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Thread: Cdn. Judge tells Cop to lose his gun.

  1. #1
    Member Array Canuck's Avatar
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    Cdn. Judge tells Cop to lose his gun.

    Let me know if I used the wrong forum. I thought you guys might be interested. This is on the weirdest things I've read in a while.


    http://www.torontosun.com/News/Toron...60264-sun.html

    By ALAN CAIRNS, TORONTO SUN

    A left-leaning judge has shocked Toronto Police with an order that uniformed cops could not testify in his court if they wear their guns.

    Ontario Court Justice Melvyn Green told a flabbergasted cop witness in a routine impaired driving case Tuesday to "check (his gun) somewhere."

    Const. Chris Horton walked a gantlet of criminals as he stored his gun in a basement storage locker, the cop union says.

    Justice Green, who once quarterbacked an appeal on behalf of Const. Todd Baylis' killer Clinton Gayle and was a key player in the Association in Defence of the Wrongly Convicted (AIDWYC), backtracked in a similar case yesterday.

    Green -- forewarned of possible police brass and union intervention -- tossed the gun issue in the laps of prosecutors and defence lawyers.

    "It's their trial, not my trial ... if there is no objection, I am not going to raise the objection myself," the judge said. "It is a question of fairness and the appearance of fairness ... for the optics of the parties."

    Despite Green's turnabout, brass and union lawyers fear Green has opened the door for litigation.

    "It hasn't died. It has just gone away," Staff Insp. George Cowley, head of Toronto Police legal services, said outside court.

    Cowley, who was set to intervene on behalf of Chief Bill Blair, said Blair feels "very strongly" that cops should keep their guns.

    UNION WILL FIGHT

    Cop union lawyer Peter Brauti said the union will fight any looming gun ban "in a heartbeat."

    Brauti said cops face more danger in a courtroom full of criminals than "out in the parking lot."

    The union's uniform director, Mike McCormack, said courts are inherently dangerous places for cops.

    "Where else do you get a couple of hundred criminals all meeting under one roof," McCormack asked. "The potential for an explosive situation exists and should not be taken lightly."

    Transcripts from Tuesday's impaired trial of Stephen Bodington at 1000 Finch Ave. W. court show Green told two cops who were set to testify that they must remove their guns and store them "somewhere."

    Green told prosecutor Nenad Trbojevic to "tell" cop witnesses that he did not want "anybody testifying while wearing sidearms."

    When Green was later advised by Trbojevic that on-duty uniform police officers are policy-bound to carry firearms, Green said while it "makes sense, I just do not see the need for them to wear them while they testify."

    CASE DELAYED

    Confusion over Green's unprecedented order led to Bodington's trial to be adjourned and put over for another five months, which prompted Bodington's lawyer to suggest the case could be open to a charter challenge because of unreasonable delay.

    When Const. Robert Jackson took the stand with his holstered pistol in the impaired case of Colak Gursel yesterday, Green told Trbojevic and defence lawyer Susan Pennypacker the issue was in their hands.

    Pennypacker said she did not want to delay or prejudice Gursel's trial.

    Both Gursel and Bodington have pleaded not guilty.

    McCormack said cops should also not have to worry what they wear when they testify in court.

    "I personally would rather see us spend our time policing, rather then changing clothes," McCormack said.

    He wondered if Green and other judges were "prepared to walk the hallways in their robes unescorted" rather than use the back corridors.
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    One of the more ridiculous things I've ever read. I'm glad it's not in the U.S. That makes me feel slightly better.

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    Is an officer with a gun more intimidating than one without while on the stand testifying? I don't think that had anything to do with it. I think the judge is from the UK thought and just doesn't like guns. Who knows? Either way it's idiotic.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Interesting twist on limiting the presence of guns. It will have the expected, though not the presumably desired, effect: it will make it less-risky for criminals while in court; it will increase the risks for everyone else; it will increase the risk of escape of violent criminals. Who's going to guard against all of that ... one unarmed bailiff, one unarmed cop, 24 cringing sheeple in the pews?

    Prediction: the change of heart will come immediately after the first judge gets killed while sitting on his high chair (or, high horse, as the case may be).

    Dumb, dumb, dumb.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 17th, 2006 at 10:52 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    One of the more ridiculous things I've ever read. I'm glad it's not in the U.S. That makes me feel slightly better.
    It has happened in the US. I remember several years ago that Chesterfield County, Va. did the same thing. I don't recall the details or what the outcome was since I moved out of that county 10 years ago.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Gunnutty's Avatar
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    Stupid is, as stupid does!! That is crazy!!!

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    It has happened in the US. I remember several years ago that Chesterfield County, Va. did the same thing. I don't recall the details or what the outcome was since I moved out of that county 10 years ago.

    Ewww. I'll have to read up on this. Makes me sad.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Not so unusual, folks.

    Federal courts do not allow ANYONE, even uniformed law enforcement officers, to carry weapons in the courthouses.

    ONLY Deputy US Marshals and US Court Security Officers (who are responsible for security in the courthouses and who do an EXCELLENT job in my experience) are allowed to retain their weapons, which (I believe per regulation or policy) must remain out-of-sight.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    There's some real intelligence for ya!

    Next time I go to fight a house fire, I think myself and my crew will walk up to the door, throw the hose off to the side, and then walk in and try to put the fire out by peeing on it. Unfreakinreal!
    Firefighter/EMT
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    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randytulsa2 View Post
    Not so unusual, folks.

    Federal courts do not allow ANYONE, even uniformed law enforcement officers, to carry weapons in the courthouses.

    ONLY Deputy US Marshals and US Court Security Officers (who are responsible for security in the courthouses and who do an EXCELLENT job in my experience) are allowed to retain their weapons, which (I believe per regulation or policy) must remain out-of-sight.
    Federal Protective Service Officers are also allowed to carry in federal courthouses. Many Districts allow Federal Probation Officers to carry in the courthouse. Addtionally, each District is a little different. It depends on the Chief Judge. They set the policy for their District. Some Districts allow lots of different folks to carry. You just never know. :c)
    Gonzo
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  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Makes me wonder if the Canadian courtroom features unarmed bailiffs...

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    We actually call them sheriffs up here some are armed, my buddy carries a S&W 5926 (? I think) in 9mm same as the RCMP.

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