What is going on with Today's generation of military personnal?

This is a discussion on What is going on with Today's generation of military personnal? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Bad mistake especially with the use of the container. I don't care what the joke, I really dislike the use of caskets or anything similar ...

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Thread: What is going on with Today's generation of military personnal?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array 45ACP4ever's Avatar
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    Bad mistake especially with the use of the container. I don't care what the joke, I really dislike the use of caskets or anything similar in anything but a respectful manner.

    I say let the Air Force investigate and go from there.
    "It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath we will hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood, until it rains down from the skies. Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles that every man from every faith can embrace." -McManus twins Boondock Saints

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    My "malicious intent" comment was meant to address the calls for dishonorable discharges. You lose your gun rights, and in many states, a DD is the equivalent of a felony. It's normally reserved for things like murder, sexual assault, desertion, etc. I have a hard time believing that what these guys did (in a school setting, no less) rises to that level.
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  4. #33
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    Definitely in poor taste and a lapse in good judgement. A picture that will haunt them the rest of their lives. While I doubt they recieve a Dishonorable Discharge. I definitely see reduction in grade and a Bad Conduct Discharge in the works. The NCO's are history. Even if not discharged, they can look forward to denial of re-enlistment. As the old saying goes, "If you play with fire, your going to get burned."
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  5. #34
    Member Array 82d DIVARTY's Avatar
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    If this happened when these guys were in tech school then nothing will happen to them unless things have changed since the early 90's. Everything short of a court marshal gets wiped clean once you complete Initial Entry Training. As for the NCO's, yeah they showed poor taste, poor judgement, and will probably be reprimanded but my initial response after seeing the pic was that they were addressing enemies of the US. I don't know maybe it's where I work in the ER that I have a highly developed morbid sense of humor.

  6. #35
    Member Array baren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatail View Post
    I don't know phreddy, it may be just the opposite...these may be some of the very few who have NOT seen combat and don't know the stupidity of what they're doing. That and the ease of the internet and electronic world of putting anything in your face immediatley these days. Abu Graib ring a bell?
    Very true, they are not children, but grown men and women that went through military training and know right from wrong in the eyes of the Military. I guess since Abu Graib, the military reinforcement training on these issue were taught but not enforced by the NCOs in the Unit. Especially since a few the NCOs were in the picture being "cool" in the action with thier suborbinates.

  7. #36
    Member Array baren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    I know I should let it roll off, I knew plenty of idiots in uniform... But that photo really ticks me off.

    Court martial them, heavy fines, stockade time while this is in process, and then kick 'em to the curb with a dishonorable discharge.
    That is the older Military mindset. Sadly, the touchy-feely military of today, they will be given an Art.15, and so the sake of thier careers it won't be placed in their perm personnel file. If the Media and Public lose interest in it, the AF will likely give a slap on the hand.

  8. #37
    Member Array baren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Warcrimes View Post
    I've been in the Army 14 years now. Looking at it objectively, new troops today are no worse than my peers back when I was a private.
    I would almost agreed with you on your point. Except, 14-24 years ago that generation of soliders were less about themselves, instant grafication and 15 minutes of fame. I expect NCOs to act like NCOs rather then privates wearing NCO stripes. Privates will be Privates, but NCOs are to set and enforce the Services standards not to join and relive thier Private years.
    As I stated in earlier responses, there are great NCOs with all the Services, but thier are far harder to see or find in the ranks any more.

  9. #38
    Member Array baren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    Keep in mind, folks, the internet is a very new technology. Most people haven't caught up with the idea that posting a picture equates to immediate worldwide exposure. In particular, those old-school NCOs in the photo are clearly in their mid-20s and didn't grow up in a world with social sites and search engines.


    And if you believe any of that, PM me immediately because I've got a bridge to sell you.
    LOLOL You almost had me on this one!! I was thinking what H*eck is this crap? :)

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baren View Post
    Very true, they are not children, but grown men and women that went through military training and know right from wrong in the eyes of the Military. I guess since Abu Graib, the military reinforcement training on these issue were taught but not enforced by the NCOs in the Unit. Especially since a few the NCOs were in the picture being "cool" in the action with thier suborbinates.
    Several points (in no particular order):
    -If today's NCOs aren't up to your standards, then the older NCOs didn't do their jobs properly in training these guys. Having said that, any NCO is a reflection of the society from whence he/she came. Going through military training does not undo what 18+ years of society and parenting failed to do.
    - What does Abu Ghraib have to do with this? Are you seriously comparing rape and torture to a tasteless gag photo with a willing classmate?
    - I never saw any "reinforcement training" after Abu Ghraib. How does it tie in to this?
    - The older military mindset would've charged folks with a felony for this? On what grounds?
    - We keep people who drink and drive (a crime). Should the punishment for poor judgement be greater?
    - There's really no way to get an Article 15 that doesn't go in your permenant file. It's very unlikely that it won't affect an NCO's career.
    - Why 14-24 years ago? What's so special about those dates? What's so different than someone who came in 13 or 25 years ago?
    - How was this about themselves and instant gratification? My understanding is that a guy/gal put the photo on his/her Facebook to show his friends. I'll give him bad judgement (again), but I don't see how he was seeking fame any more than Lyddie England was. The fame didn't come in until GI Joe took it to the media rather than using the chain of command. (Didn't another Joe recently run to the media and cause Delta Airlines a public relations nightmare because Joe didn't understand that he would be reimbursed for his baggage fees? Rather than getting clarification on the policy, he ran straight to the media. Talk about self gratification and a sense of entitlement...) Back to this story, if Joe was really concerned about the families of the fallen, he would've left the media out of this unless absolutely necessary.
    - They were told to take a gag photo. Tech school usually comes right after Basic (unless you're a re-trainee). People have "do what your superiors tell you" ingrained into them at that point. Judgement isn't allowed until later.
    - When I was in Basic, there were plenty of songs sung that were in poor taste. The youth of today do not have the market cornered on poor taste.
    - Why are you unwilling to give these guys the benefit of the doubt until an investigation is concluded? Have they rescinded "innocent until proven guilty"? If they committed a crime, then hammer them relentlessly.
    - Out of curiosity, what type of career do/did you have with the military? I'll tell you that I work with mostly C-130 folks, maintenance folks, and aerial port folks like these. By and large, the people I work with day in and day out are extremely motivated, consciencious individuals. I'm just curious why your experience is so different.
    - Any slice of society is going to have good folks and bad folks. I do not feel that the bad folks are anywhere near the majority. I'd rather have somebody on my side who had committed an innocent mistake, yet can learn from it than I would somebody who assaults their wife/kids or who is a gangbanger.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    From what I read, the picture was leaked to the press from a family member of one of the people involved. If that had not happened, who would have seen it? The friends of the guy who posted it on facebook.

    I agree it is immature and they should have some type of punishment, but it needs to be tempered and not colored by all the other politcal stuff going on.

    Comparing this to Abu Graib is a big stretch.
    Not comparing it to the act of Abu Graib, just the ease of distribution these days.
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Gallows humor is one thing, I know and get that all to well. But, that is done behind closed doors with people who also understand the context. The general public does not. Taking photos and other steps, then sending it out is another issue-
    Yup. Gallows humor is always going to exist as a coping mechanism. The difference between gallows humor and conduct unbecoming is usually whether the Old Man finds out about it. Or, in this case, the public.

    I made more than a few comments in my fire service career that would have been a huge mess if they had been recorded and played on YouTube.

    With today's technology, what might have been an enormous private screw-up can be spread over the world with a click or two.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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