Restraining orders, guns, and lawsuits

This is a discussion on Restraining orders, guns, and lawsuits within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I don't know where else to put it, so I'll put it here. The situation: There is an ex girlfriend that says that she is ...

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Thread: Restraining orders, guns, and lawsuits

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Restraining orders, guns, and lawsuits

    I don't know where else to put it, so I'll put it here.

    The situation: There is an ex girlfriend that says that she is going to get an emergency order of protection against me because I have guns and she is afraid of me. She actually has no reason to be afraid of me and invited me to her home an hour prior to telling me that she is going to get an OOP. I believe that it would be super easy to beat the OOP, but I'm not sure how long it would take.

    The problem: I am engaged in the business of teaching people to shoot and certifying them to get their Handgun Carry Permits. If I am subject to an OOP, I lose my permit and I can't be in possession of a firearm and I can't teach my classes. I can beat the OOP and I can get my HCP back, but it's going to take time and money.

    The question: Would she be civilly liable if she lies in order to get that OOP and puts me out of work?

    The PS: Yes, I have repeatedly asked her to stop contacting me and even blocked her number. The problem is that the system for blocking numbers costs $5 a month and still does not block picture messages which can still have text attached
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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    I believe you should immediately retain counsel and consider an Emergency Order of Protection against her. I don't believe the Forum will provide you with the quality of advice you need and deserve.

    She would possibly be liable, but the back and forth in the Courts will be very expensive with a very uncertain outcome.

    Assuming you are not giving her any reason to be afraid, a Court should question her need for an OOP.


    "He went on two legs, wore clothes and was a human being, but nevertheless he was in reality a wolf of the Steppes. He had learned a good deal . . . and was a fairly clever fellow. What he had not learned, however, was this: to find contentment in himself and his own life. The cause of this apparently was that at the bottom of his heart he knew all the time (or thought he knew) that he was in reality not a man, but a wolf of the Steppes."

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    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    I believe you should immediately retain counsel and consider an Emergency Order of Protection against her. I don't believe the Forum will provide you with the quality of advice you need and deserve.

    She would possibly be liable, but the back and forth in the Courts will be very expensive with a very uncertain outcome.

    Assuming you are not giving her any reason to be afraid, a Court should question her need for an OOP.
    I appreciate the input and would hire someone, but I don't have the money to retain an attorney for what is likely just a childish threat, albeit one that needs to be taken seriously.

    I'd need a reason to get an OOP, and the only thing I fear from her is an OOP. I suppose harassment is a reason for one, but I am also afraid that if I get one on her, she will return the favor.

    I'm not giving her any reason to be afraid, but eight of ten OOPs are not needed and she can almost certainly get one if she applies.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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    1st thing is stop speaking to her. Cut all ties and let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps a vistit to the court to speak to the clerk would give you the answers you need without consulting an attorney.
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    I don’t know about TN but here in NC the county magistrate issues TROs, that would be my first stop to find out what you need to do. They do charge to issue a TRO but there is no charge for advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agave View Post
    I appreciate the input and would hire someone, but I don't have the money to retain an attorney for what is likely just a childish threat, albeit one that needs to be taken seriously.
    I hope for your sake that you're right... but hope is not a strategy.

    I would seek advice from real attorneys (as opposed to us DC 'experts'). You can have an initial sit-down consult with an attorney to get steered in the right direction without actually retaining one; it might even be free. Compared to putting your income on the line, that might turn out to be a meager investment.
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    A T T O R N E Y... ASAP
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    You need to plan on one expense or the other. Either the cost of an attorney or the loss of income AND the cost of an attorney.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agave View Post
    I don't know where else to put it, so I'll put it here.

    The situation: There is an ex girlfriend that says that she is going to get an emergency order of protection against me because I have guns and she is afraid of me. She actually has no reason to be afraid of me and invited me to her home an hour prior to telling me that she is going to get an OOP. I believe that it would be super easy to beat the OOP, but I'm not sure how long it would take.

    The problem: I am engaged in the business of teaching people to shoot and certifying them to get their Handgun Carry Permits. If I am subject to an OOP, I lose my permit and I can't be in possession of a firearm and I can't teach my classes. I can beat the OOP and I can get my HCP back, but it's going to take time and money.

    The question: Would she be civilly liable if she lies in order to get that OOP and puts me out of work?

    The PS: Yes, I have repeatedly asked her to stop contacting me and even blocked her number. The problem is that the system for blocking numbers costs $5 a month and still does not block picture messages which can still have text attached
    She would be civilly (and perhaps criminally) liable, in theory.

    However...

    Courts and police are VERY reticent to take action against petitioners for protective orders, even if you can concretely prove that they falsified the petition.

    The deck in that game is heavily stacked against you.

    Rock and Glock gave you the right advice in the first line of his post - get an attorney, NOW.

    Consult your local bar association - they often have lists of attorneys by practice are who will give free or low cost initial consultations, and some have programs to help people who cannot afford counsel.
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    Senior Member Array Okemo's Avatar
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    Yes attorney. Also, five bucks a month...even if it doesn't block text and images you will have proof from your phone provider that you're attempting to block calls from her and as long as she can't prove you called her.....that's money well spent.

    Stop kicking the dirt and wondering what you should do......contact a lawyer.
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    Don't worry about blocking her calls, save the $5. STOP talking to her, don't answer her calls.

    She's only threatening you, and I don't think she would file for an order of protection. It wouldn't hurt to talk to an attorney, interview several of them, just in case she does.

    If what you said is true, she's only scared of you BECAUSE you have guns, then she doesn't have a case. Don't give her one.

    The balls in your court.

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    Rock and Glock gave you solid advice. You say you don't have the money for a lawyer, well if she files a OOP/TRO against you, guess what. Your going to need a lawyer AND your not going to be working to be able to pay him.

    Get a lawyer now, before things go down hill. If you can back up your claims of her calls, text messages and threats of a OOP, perhaps you can beat her to the punch and get a restraining order against her for harassment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okemo View Post
    Yes attorney. Also, five bucks a month...even if it doesn't block text and images you will have proof from your phone provider that you're attempting to block calls from her and as long as she can't prove you called her.....that's money well spent.

    Stop kicking the dirt and wondering what you should do......contact a lawyer.





    Drop all contact with her, posthaste.
    Keep your phone records and try to get the phone co. to help you verify when she trys to contact you.
    You definitely need legal council for this.
    This is not some schoolyard he said-she said peeing match going on.
    She sounds like an unstable idiot who you need to avoid.
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    I haven't done much family law, but she will have to file a motion to the court. In that motion she has to factually explain why she is requesting the order. It it up to the judge if he/she believes the motion is well taken or not. If the motion is granted, then your council (and I strongly recommend you retain one) will have to file a motion to "set aside" the previous order. The court will schedule a hearing and she will have to prove to the court any accusations made in the complaint.

    It is of my opinion and belief that she will never find a "ethical" attorney to file, nor a judge that would grant such a thing based on the mer fact that you legally posses and carry a gun, especially since it is your profession to do so. Normally there has to be other things such as threats of violence, history of domestic violence, or if you are dependent on alcohol or drugs.

    Like everyone has said before, please speake to a attorney.

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    Lead Moderator Array MattInFla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses View Post
    I haven't done much family law, but she will have to file a motion to the court. In that motion she has to factually explain why she is requesting the order. It it up to the judge if he/she believes the motion is well taken or not. If the motion is granted, then your council (and I strongly recommend you retain one) will have to file a motion to "set aside" the previous order. The court will schedule a hearing and she will have to prove to the court any accusations made in the complaint.

    It is of my opinion and belief that she will never find a "ethical" attorney to file, nor a judge that would grant such a thing based on the mer fact that you legally posses and carry a gun, especially since it is your profession to do so. Normally there has to be other things such as threats of violence, history of domestic violence, or if you are dependent on alcohol or drugs.

    Like everyone has said before, please speake to a attorney.
    Most places seem to do this in 2 phases.

    The initial petition often results in a temporary (or 'emergency') protective order being issued, accompanied by the setting of a hearing date for the extended order.

    Then, after the damage is done (which in some juridictions like Maryland can include the other party being evicted from a shared home), there will be a hearing where the accused finally has a chance to defend themselves.

    I can tell you from personal experience that in Maryland (for example) it takes nearly nothing for the temporary order to be granted. No actual evidence, just an allegation. And even if you can prove the petitioner lied, the chances of getting the State's Attorney do do anything about it are slim to none. Even when the petitioner, under oath, admits that nothing that was alleged in the petition ever happened.

    The deck is entirely weighted in favor of the petitioner.

    In the case I was involved in, my stepson's girlfriend filed for protective orders against him, my wife and I. She was advised and assisted by a "victim's advocate" for the local PD. The first set of petitions she filed against my wife and I were dismissed because they were the wrong type of petition (there are two different types in Maryland, depending on the relationship between the parties).

    During the course of that hearing, it was demonstrated that she had falsified material facts in the petition. When they were dismissed, the "advocate" helped her re-file the exact same affidavits (still containing the falsified material facts) in support of applications for the correct type of order.

    So we got dragged back to court, but the hearing was continued because the petitioner was "too sick" to attend. Meanwhile, the "victim's advocate" has contacted the court to tell them that my wife and I (both officers in the fire / rescue service) are a physical threat to her client and that the stepson has "gang" affiliations (total BS). So there's half the Sheriff's office courthouse response team in the courtroom when we get there. Which actually turns out to be pretty funny since I knew about half of them.

    So we go back to court yet again, and fortunately this time we get a judge who sees right through the petitioner's act. The judge begins to question the petitioner - after advising the "advocate" that she was not an attorney and could not coach the petitioner on her testimony - and gets her to admit that none of the things in her petition ever happened.

    The scary thing is that, in Maryland, these orders are routinely granted if the respondent doesn't show up for court. So a mishap on the way to the courthouse could have cost us both our careers.

    As is, it cost us thousands in legal fees, and no action was ever taken by the SAO against the petitioner.

    And yeah, I am a bit bitter about it.

    Matt
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