August 24th, 2006 06:10 PM
August 24th, 2006 06:53 PM
I live in the area of town known as "The Student Ghetto". I bet this place could be very dangerouse if a large scale SHTF senario happens. I dont want to carry so much crap that I couldnt move out quickly if needed. So Im thinking along the lines of "high speed, low drag".
I need to order another big box of MRE's, but my main consern ATM is water purification. Water is heavy! Im also thinking of getting a hammock tent. I alwayes wanted one anyhow.
August 24th, 2006 09:26 PM
My current plan is to bug out if given a couple of days warning (like for a hurricane). I know we can get to my folks in rural GA in 8 hours or so, and I keep extra gas for the generator (more than enough to get us there). My next project is to map routes via back roads between here and there.
If we don't get enough warning, I keep anywhere from a few days to a few weeks of food in the house, have camping stoves, etc. and a couple of secure rooms.
When we retire, I hope to join some good friends out west.
August 24th, 2006 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by SammyIamToday
In short, it will keep for a good while if you put some fuel stabilizer in it. Even when it begins to break down, (what is the technical term for that?) And gets that sickly sweet odor about it, it will power an engine. I have been messing around with cars since I was old enough to be interested in them. I have picked up parts cars that have been sitting in a field for 15 years with gas that has turned to napalm. I poured in a few gallons of fresh gas to thin things out a bit and waited a day or so. If they didn't start at that point, I blew out the fuel lines with compressed air, then fired them up. You would be surprised how many I got to run and drive this way. I had an old buick given to me that I put 10 or 15k on after being left to rot in a field for close to a decade. It had a terminal case of cancer, and no heater, or radio, but it ran like a top. I think I had a grand total of $250 in it when I gave it to a friend for the cylinder heads.
Back to bad gas, granted engines don't seem to run all that well on it, but they do run.
One thing to remember though, most of these were old vehicles with carburetors on them. A fuel injected vehicle would go nuts trying to compensate, but it should keep going at least for a while.
I figure on trying to rotate the fuel out every couple of years even with stabilizer, so this shouldn’t be too much of a factor.
August 24th, 2006 11:40 PM
Thank you for the encouragement.
Originally Posted by RSSZ
All very good points. At this point I am trying to prepare as best as possible for multiple eventualities. Most disasters will have many similar problems to overcome.
IMO what the "disaster"is will dictate what steps you will have to take to deal with it. If it is simply a fuel shortage,you can never store enough fuel to make it through it. Same as food,ammo,or other commodities. You HAVE to be able to renew your resources. That's the time to get into the barter system. Times like this it's great to have something to trade. Example:> Lawyers will be of no use....BUT....if you have medical,mechanical,military(certin fields),mercenary,or other needed training,it will come in handy. (never,ever,share guns and/or ammo)
For instance, an extreme fuel shortage, could drive the prices of basic necessities through the roof. Local stores would soon be stripped of most important items. If you don’t believe me watch the bread and milk disappear at the local grocery store the next time big snowstorm is predicted. A small stockpile of fuel, and necessities would be a very welcome buffer. Or in the case of an epidemic, where people are incapacitated or else remain at home in fear for their health, stores of fuel, food and necessities will soon become scarce. The same is true with natural disasters. Etc etc.
Another excellent point. I have a couple of friends I would trust with my life, who I am considering bringing into the fold.
Several of my friends that live in Utah have a plan. Three families are involved. They have a defendable location to retreat to. The provisions are split three ways. They will defend their domain as a unit. I would hate to have to try to take what they will have in their little valley.
I live in a housing developement. But I have two neighbors that live just down the street that are county sherriffs. These two men are shooters,hunters,ex-military,etc. During the past hurricanes we looked out for each other. We guarded our own neighborhood. We shared food,water,and the ice that we could get. Anybody can form little groups of like minded people to work as a team for the betterment of the entire group.
If S-H's-T-F really hard,it will be hard for anyone to make it on their own. Small(3-5 families)groups will have a much better chance of coming through it if they are all prepared and all work for the good of the group.
Once again, an excellent point.
Mindset will play a big part of how it goes down also. This is hard to think about .....BUT.......would you be willing to kill your neighbor if he was trying to steal from you to feed his family. This, and similar things, should be thought out and a plan divised for.
Good luck to us all. --------
My wife and I have discussed having enough extra for short term situations to help others, but as you said in a long term scenario, to much is not enough.
It is very sad to have to think about, but definitely something to discuss. If it were a group of BGs directly threatening my family, it would be easier to think about. But, a neighbor begging for food for his kids? Saying no, and backing that no up even due to extreme necessity, would haunt me for years to come. This to me is one of the hardest things to consider about preparations like this. Ideally I think all of us wish that in a situation like that, we could reach out to everyone who came to us in need, but we can only do the best we can with what we have, and that is all we can do.
I am sure someone will come along and blast me for being to tender hearted now, but for me the hardest thing about a disaster like the ones we have been discussing, would not be the hardships endured, or doing without a lot of the luxuries we take for granted. It would be watching others suffer and potentially die. I have the will to see my family survive, but that doesn’t make me inhuman.
That is quite enough about that topic for now.
As always thank you to everyone for bringing up so much good material, and things to consider.
August 25th, 2006 01:10 AM
just a question but have any of you thought about, and i know this may sound stupid, seeds? stuff you can plant after the emergency? i know it would take a while to grow but would be a great source of food for a LONG term thing =O) just a thought.
August 25th, 2006 07:32 AM
That has been something that I have given consideration to. However you would have to do it in an area remote/hidden enough or else people would strip it clean before you could get any benefit from it.
August 25th, 2006 08:46 AM
You'd probably have to get a dog to defend it or do it yourself. Especially if people could come across it. I'd be all about sharing to some extent, but if it was a true SHTF scenario, you'd need that food to survive and feed your family. Having people leech off your crops wouldn't help that out at all.
Originally Posted by GoodSamaritan
August 26th, 2006 12:55 AM
what about flower beds on roller carts? sit outside during the day and watch them and at night put them back inside =O)
August 26th, 2006 01:53 PM
Not to practical on a large scale, but definately an option.
Originally Posted by palmgopher
I will always remember the neighbor who only put out 3 or 4 tomato plants in his wife's flower bed. He kept watering them and checked up ont them every day. He watched the first one bud, then turn from green to red. He said he almost picked it one night when it was nice and ripe, but decided he would pick it the next morning and take it in his lunch. The next morning it was gone. He was so angry, it wouldn't have done for the cuplrit to have shown up. There would likely have been violence. (no I didn't take it, so don't ask)
In that situation it was somewhat humorous,(except to my neighbor) but in a survival situation every when every morsel of food could mean the difference between life or death, I can see that garding something as large and difficult to hide as a garden, could be a serious undertaking.
August 26th, 2006 02:50 PM
If I can make some suggestions - I have a bug-out pack and luckily, I live up by some mountains with some creeks that have their head in these mountains. I would suggest bringing a large amount of Iodine tablets or some kind of re-usable filtration system for water, should you stumble onto a river or creek.
Vitamins!!!! You can bring all the food you want, but your body will begin to break down without certain vitamins. Getting some Centrum or any of those "All-In-One" vitamin tablets would be perfect. You can get packs of 250 for about $20 and you can probably ration them to one every other day or even third day.
I would also keep an axe/saw with extra blades. They are incredibly useful in a number of scenarios and for different tasks.
This is just me. I live in a populated area with some people who live border-line poverty. This is why I choose to bug OUT to the mountains - a 5 minute drive @ 80mph - instead of trying to defend my house.
The Gunsite Blog
ITFT / Quick Kill Review
"It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008
August 26th, 2006 03:37 PM
Try root vegetables.
Originally Posted by palmgopher
We've got a moderately sized place (7.5 acres) so we keep a garden going from spring through fall. While we grow a lot of above ground fruits and vegetables we also grow a lot of root vegetables, such as potatoes, onions, carrots, sweet potatoes, etc... The nice thing about these is that if kept properly they last for a long time, keep in the ground even in a moderate frost, and if anyone is snooping around our garden, unless they knew exactly what they were looking at they wouldn't know anything was growing at all.
The garden is also a great draw for deer too. I got three fairly good size ones from my fall garden last year. Some of the meat is still in the freezer. Judging from the footprints this will be a good year too.
I picked up a 500 count bottle of multis (equal to Centrums) from Costco earlier this year for $13
Originally Posted by SixBravo
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone
The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.
August 26th, 2006 04:32 PM
This thread reminds me of a legendary Adirondack hermit named Noah John Rondeau (1883-1967).
He lived most of his life in some of the most harsh weather conditions the U.S. can dish out. Although he did have to move from his town Cold River City (population 1) with himself as mayor, in the 50's. When a 1950 storm leveled much of the forest around his hermitage. There are many books about him.
He did what we are talking about with far less equiptment, for manny years
August 26th, 2006 05:30 PM
Survival List as requested...
Here you go:
Originally Posted by Rock and Glock
Pre Event Actions:
1. Learn about the natural disasters that could occur in your community from your local emergency management office or American Red Cross chapter. Learn whether hazardous materials are produced, stored or transported near your area. Learn about possible consequences of deliberate acts of terror. Ask how to prepare for each potential emergency and how to respond.
2. Talk with employers and school officials about their emergency response plans.
3. Talk with your household about potential emergencies and how to respond to each. Talk about what you would need to do in an evacuation.
4. Plan how your household would stay in contact if you were separated. Identify two meeting places: the first should be near your home—in case of fire, perhaps a tree or a telephone pole; the second should be away from your neighborhood in case you cannot return home.
5. Pick a friend or relative who lives out of the area for household members to call to say they are okay.
6. Draw a floor plan of your home. Mark two escape routes from each room.
7. Post emergency telephone numbers by telephones. Teach children how and when to call 911.
8. Make sure everyone in your household knows how and when to shut off water, gas, and electricity at the main switches. Consult with your local utilities if you have questions.
9. Take a first aid and CPR class. Local American Red Cross chapters can provide information. Official certification by the American Red Cross provides “good Samaritan” law protection for those giving first aid.
10. Reduce the economic impact of disaster on your property and your household’s health and financial well-being.
• Review property insurance policies before disaster strikes—make sure policies are current and be certain they meet your needs (type of coverage, amount of coverage, and hazard covered—flood, earthquake)
• Protect your household’s financial well-being before a disaster strikes— review life insurance policies and consider saving money in an “emergency” savings account that could be used in any crisis. It is advisable to keep a small amount of cash or traveler’s checks at home in a safe place where you can quickly gain access to it in case of an evacuation.
• Be certain that health insurance policies are current and meet the needs of your household.
11. Consider ways to help neighbors who may need special assistance, such as the elderly or the disabled.
12. Make arrangements for pets. Pets are not allowed in public shelters. Service animals for those who depend on them are allowed.
If you have a disability or special need, you may have to take additional steps to protect yourself and your household in an emergency. If you know of friends or neighbors with special needs, help them with these extra precautions. Hearing impaired may need to make special arrangements to receive warning. Mobility impaired may need assistance in getting to a shelter. Households with a single working parent may need help from others both in planning for disasters and during an emergency. People without vehicles may need to make arrangements for transportation. People with special dietary needs should have an adequate emergency food supply. Find out about special assistance that may be available in your community. Register with the office of emergency services or fire department for assistance, so needed help can be provided quickly in an emergency.
Create a network of neighbors, relatives, friends and co-workers to aid you in an emergency. Discuss your needs and make sure they know how to operate necessary equipment.
Discuss your needs with your employer.
If you are mobility impaired and live or work in a high-rise building, have an escape chair. If you live in an apartment building, ask the management to mark accessible exits clearly and to make arrangements to help you evacuate the building. Keep extra wheelchair batteries, oxygen, catheters, medication, food for guide or hearing-ear dogs, or other items you might need. Also, keep a list of the type and serial numbers of medical devices you need.
Those who are not disabled should learn who in their neighborhood or building is disabled so that they may assist them during emergencies. If you are a care-giver for a person with special needs, make sure you have a plan to communicate if an emergency occurs.
You may need to survive on your own for three days or more. This means having your own water, food and emergency supplies. Try using backpacks or duffel bags to keep the supplies together. Assembling the supplies you might need following a disaster is an important part of your disaster plan. You should prepare emergency supplies for the following situations:
A disaster supply kit with essential food, water, and supplies for at least three days—this kit should be kept in a designated place and be ready to “grab and go” in case you have to leave your home quickly because of a disaster, such as a flash flood or major chemical emergency. Make sure all household members know where the kit is kept.
Consider having additional supplies for sheltering or home confinement for up to two weeks.
You should also have a disaster supply kit at work. This should be in one container, ready to "grab and go" in case you have to evacuate the building.
A car kit of emergency supplies, including food and water, to keep stored in your car at all times. This kit would also include flares, jumper cables, and seasonal supplies.
Stockpiling Water Safely
Stocking water reserves should be a top priority. Drinking water in emergency situations should not be rationed. Therefore, it is critical to store adequate amounts of water for your household. Individual needs vary, depending on age, physical condition, activity, diet, and climate. A normally active person needs at least two quarts of water daily just for drinking. Children, nursing mothers, and ill people need more. Very hot temperatures can double the amount of water needed. Because you will also need water for sanitary purposes and, possibly, for cooking, you should store at least one gallon of water per person per day.
Store water in thoroughly washed plastic, fiberglass or enamel-lined metal containers. Don't use containers that can break, such as glass bottles. Never use a container that has held toxic substances. Sound plastic containers, such as soft drink bottles, are best. You can also purchase food grade plastic buckets or drums. Containers for water should be rinsed with a diluted bleach solution (one part bleach to ten parts water) before use. Previously used bottles or other containers may be contaminated with microbes or chemicals. Do not rely on untested devices for decontaminating water.
If your water is treated commercially by a water utility, you do not need to treat water before storing it. Additional treatments of treated public water will not increase storage life. If you have a well or public water that has not been treated, follow the treatment instructions provided by your public health service or water provider. If you suspect that your well may be contaminated, contact your local or state health department or agriculture extension agent for specific advice.
Seal your water containers tightly, label them and store them in a cool, dark place. It is important to change stored water every six months.
If activity is reduced, healthy people can survive on half their usual food intake for an extended period or without any food for many days. Food, unlike water, may be rationed safely, except for children and pregnant women.
You don’t need to go out and buy unfamiliar foods to prepare an emergency food supply. You can use the canned foods, dry mixes and other staples on your cupboard shelves. Canned foods do not require cooking, water or special preparation. Be sure to include a manual can opener.
Keep canned foods in a dry place where the temperature is fairly cool. To protect boxed foods from pests and to extend their shelf life, store the food in tightly closed plastic or metal containers.
Replace items in your food supply every six months. Throw out any canned good that becomes swollen, dented, or corroded. Use foods before they go bad, and replace them with fresh supplies. Date each food item with a marker. Place new items at the back of the storage area and older ones in front.
Food items that you might consider including in your disaster supply kit include: ready-to-eat meats, fruits, and vegetables; canned or boxed juices, milk, and soup; high-energy foods like peanut butter, jelly, low-sodium crackers, granola bars, and trail mix; vitamins; foods for infants or persons on special diets; cookies, hard candy; instant coffee, cereals, and powdered milk.
You may need to survive on your own after a disaster. Local officials and relief workers will be on the scene after a disaster, but they cannot reach everyone immediately. You could get help in hours, or it may take days. Basic services, such as electricity, gas, water, sewage treatment and telephones, may be cut off for days, even a week or longer. Or you may have to evacuate at a moment’s notice and take essentials with you.
You probably won’t have the opportunity to shop or search for the supplies you’ll need. Your household will cope best by preparing for disaster before it strikes.
Assemble a first aid kit for your home and for each vehicle. The basics for your first aid kit should include:
– First aid manual
– Sterile adhesive bandages in assorted sizes
– Assorted sizes of safety pins
– Cleansing agents (isopropyl alcohol, hydrogen peroxide)/soap/ germicide
– Antibiotic ointment
– Latex gloves (2 pairs)
– Petroleum jelly
– 2-inch and 4-inch sterile gauze pads (4-6 each size)
– Triangular bandages (3)
– 2-inch and 3-inch sterile rolled bandages (3 rolls each)
– Cotton balls
– Moistened towelettes
– Tongue depressor blades (2)
– Tube of petroleum jelly or other lubricant
It may be difficult to obtain prescription medications during a disaster because stores may be closed or supplies may be limited. Ask your physician or pharmacist about storing prescription medications. Be sure they are stored to meet instructions on the label and be mindful of expirations dates—be sure to keep your stored medication up to date.
Extra pair of prescription glasses or contact lens.
Have the following nonprescription drugs in your disaster supply kit:
– Aspirin and non-aspirin pain reliever
– Anti-diarrhea medication
– Antacid (for stomach upset)
– Syrup of ipecac (use to induce vomiting if advised by the poison control center)
It will be important to assemble these items in a disaster supply kit in case you have to leave your home quickly. Even if you don't have to leave your home, if you lose power it will be easier to have these item already assembled and in one place.
Tools and other items:
– A portable, battery-powered radio or television and extra batteries (also have a NOAA weather radio, if appropriate for your area)
– Flashlight and extra batteries
– Signal flare
– Matches in a waterproof container (or waterproof matches)
– Shut-off wrench, pliers, shovel and other tools
– Duct tape and scissors
– Plastic sheeting
– Small canister, A-B-C-type fire extinguisher
– Tube tent
– Work gloves
– Paper, pens, and pencils
– Needles and thread
– Battery-operated travel alarm clock
– Manual can opener
– Mess kits or paper cups, plates, and plastic utensils
– All-purpose knife
– Household liquid bleach to treat drinking water
– Sugar, salt, pepper
– Aluminum foil and plastic wrap
– Re-sealing plastic bags
– If food must be cooked, small cooking stove and a can of cooking fuel
Sanitation and hygiene items:
– Washcloth and towel
– Towelettes, soap, hand sanitizer, liquid detergent
– Tooth paste, toothbrushes, shampoo, deodorants, comb and brush, razor, shaving cream, lip balm, sunscreen, insect repellent, contact lens solutions, mirror, feminine supplies
– Heavy-duty plastic garbage bags and ties—for personal sanitation uses—and toilet paper
– Medium-sized plastic bucket with tight lid
– Disinfectant and household chlorine bleach
– Consider including a small shovel for digging a latrine
Household documents and contact numbers:
– Personal identification, cash (including change) or traveler's checks, and a credit card
– Copies of important documents:
birth certificate, marriage certificate, driver's license, social security cards, passport, wills, deeds, inventory of household goods, insurance papers, immunizations records, bank and credit card account numbers, stocks and bonds. Be sure to store these in a watertight container.
– Emergency contact list and phone numbers
– Map of the area and phone numbers of places you could go
– An extra set of car keys and house keys.
One complete change of clothing and footwear for each household member. Shoes should be sturdy work shoes or boots. Rain gear, hat and gloves, extra socks, extra underwear, thermal underwear, sunglasses.
Blankets or a sleeping bag for each household member, pillows.
Remember to consider the needs of infants, elderly persons, disabled persons, and pets and to include entertainment and comfort items for babies, children, elderly, and pets. Entertainment: books, games, quiet toys and stuffed animals.
It is important for you to be ready, wherever you may be when disaster strikes. With the checklists above you can now put together an appropriate disaster supply kit for your household:
A disaster supply kit kept in the home with supplies for at least three days; it is unlikely that food supplies would be cut off for as long as two weeks, consider storing additional water, food, clothing and bedding other supplies to expand your supply kit to last up to two weeks.
A work place disaster supply kit. It is important to store a personal supply of water and food at work; you will not be able to rely on water fountains or coolers. Women who wear high-heels
should be sure to have comfortable flat shoes at their workplace in case an evacuation requires walking long distances.
A car disaster supply kit. Keep a smaller disaster supply kit in the trunk of you car. If you become stranded or are not able to return home, having these items will help you be more comfortable until help arrives. Add items for severe winter weather during months when heavy snow or icy roads are possible—salt, sand, shovels, and extra winter clothing, including hats and gloves.
The only thing not covered in the above is firearms for self defense. This should be carefully considered by each individual. It is a great responsibility. Remember that firearms are just tools, and tools in the wrong hands are more of a liability than an asset.
A buddy of mine who is a DHS agent sent this to me:
From Judicial Meanz:
1) Keep a battery powered television in your house, and batteries. Radio stations have a three day attention span in an emergency, we were without power for 11 days.
2) Keep a couple of oil "hurricane lamps" around too. Candles burn down after the 5th day or so, and they dont give off enough light to really help in a long stretch. Place a mirror behind the oil lamp to relect the light around the room.
3) If someone in the family has a critical job, expect them to be gone. I was mobilized for active duty and sent halfway across the state to support Humanitarian Operations and had to leave my family home in a damaged house.
4) keep a few toys for the kids tucked away so when they get stressed out from no electricity and bad water, they can be distracted with the toys and not become angry and fight.
5) Buy a box of MRE entree's-72 packages of main course MRE meals-and keep them at home. They will feed a family of four for about a week, but it is no frills eating.
6) Buy a propane grill and about 5 bottles- keep them tucked away safe for use during an emergency. Charcoal flies off the shelf and the prices go sky high.
7) Keep a lot of canned food. It doesnt spoil as quickly and is easy to cook with limited resouorces.
My 'Master List'
· Sterile adhesive bandages in assorted sizes
· Assorted sizes of safety pins
· Isopropyl alcohol
· Hydrogen peroxide
· Antibiotic ointment
· Latex gloves (2 pairs)
· Petroleum jelly
· 2-inch and 4-inch sterile gauze pads (4-6 each size)
· Triangular bandages (3)
· 2-inch and 3-inch sterile rolled bandages (3 rolls each)
· Cotton balls
· Moistened towelettes
· Tongue depressor blades (2)
· Tube of petroleum jelly or other lubricant
· Anti-diarrhea medication
· Cough Suppressant
· Space Blanket
· Mole Skin & Foam
· Snake Bite Kit
· A portable, battery-powered radio and extra batteries
· Flashlight, extra bulbs & batteries
· Signal flare
· Matches & Lighters
· Waterproof Matches
· Leatherman Tool
· Duct tape
· Plastic sheeting
· Small canister, A-B-C-type fire extinguisher
· Work gloves
· Paper, pens, and pencils
· Needles and thread
· Wrist Watch
· Honing Stone & Oil
· Manual can opener
· Mess kit
· Fork & Spoon
· PUR Drinking Water System
· Water Bottles
· Extra filters for PUR Water Filter
· Trioxane Cooking Fuel
· Sterno Cooking Fuel
· Propane Stove/Grill
· Case of Propane
· Salt & Pepper
· ZipLoc bags (Lg & Sm)
· Summer Sausage
· Hard Candy
· Freeze Dried Dinners
· Cup of Noodles
· Canned Veggies
· Canned Meats
Sanitation and hygiene items:
· Washcloth and towel
· Hand sanitizer
· Liquid detergent
· Tooth paste and toothbrushes
· Shaving cream
· Lip balm
· Insect repellent
· Heavy-duty plastic garbage bags (to go potty in)
· Toilet paper
· Medium-sized plastic bucket with tight lid
· Chlorine bleach
· Shovel (for a latrine)
· Personal identification
· Emergency phone numbers
· Map of the area
· Extra pair of prescription glasses
· Carton of Cigarettes
· Extra set of car & house keys
· Reading material, books, etc.
Clothing (no cotton):
· Rain gear
· Hat w/ visor
· Thermal underwear
· Sleeping bag
· Small Tarps
· Large Tarp
· Folding Chair
· Nylon Cord
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
August 26th, 2006 05:34 PM
By Tenderfoot in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
Last Post: May 3rd, 2009, 08:03 AM
By Ram Rod in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
Last Post: October 5th, 2008, 07:34 PM
By CR2008 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: June 3rd, 2008, 07:46 PM
By ExactlyMyPoint in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Last Post: January 22nd, 2008, 10:51 AM
By ExSoldier in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
Last Post: October 18th, 2005, 10:49 AM
Search tags for this page
bug in bag
bug in bag -bed bug
bug-in shelter in place
high rise apartment security
propane tank 250 gallon price fl
shelter in place plan bug in
Click on a term to search for related topics.
» DefensiveCarry Sponsors