Will Generation 'Gimme' Work for the American Dream? Eye-opening insight into America - Page 2

Will Generation 'Gimme' Work for the American Dream? Eye-opening insight into America

This is a discussion on Will Generation 'Gimme' Work for the American Dream? Eye-opening insight into America within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I feel somewhat responsible for the problem. My generation created the parents of these freeloaders, and I guess we didn't do a very good job ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Geezer's Avatar
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    I feel somewhat responsible for the problem. My generation created the parents of these freeloaders, and I guess we didn't do a very good job of teaching responsibility to our kids.


  2. #17
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    So many participants here keep talking about "freeloaders." Please folks, don't you know that Clinton and Gingrich together pretty well abolished what most of you are thinking about as "welfare." Ain't really no such thing and hasn't been for 15 years.

    What freeloading are you talking about? What specific programs? This is the wrong place but I get pretty fed up when folks talk about non-issues as if they were real.

    The generational thing, the said the same thing about geezer and me. It is never ending. If a person get up in the morning and goes to school, gets up in the morning and goes to work, gets up in the morning and seriously looks for a job, they aren't freeloaders. There's nothing freeloading about working Mc D jobs and still qualifying for Medicaid or EIC.

    Geezer, you didn't cause a problem. Your kids didn't cause a problem, and your grand kids are going to turn out fine unless they are druggies or mentally impaired.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Hopyard, it's one of those things that if people say it enough times it must be true.

    My father said the same thing about my generation. The Beatles were a bunch of no good hippies and I was going to turn out to be a no good, pot smok'in homosexual if I continued on that path. He couldn't have been more wrong.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

  4. #19
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I thought we aren't doing partisan politics here.
    Hard to ignore the Novice-In-Chief and his "spectacular" results though, huh?

  5. #20
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    I can't speak for all of today's youngsters but both of my 20 something daughters and their husbands have terriffic work ethics and don't believe the government owes them anything.

  6. #21
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    What freeloading are you talking about? What specific programs?
    Well I guess we could start with (up to) two years of Federal unemployment benefits. Then we could talk about the "right" to health care. We could also talk about HUD, federal housing subsidies and section 8.
    I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    So many participants here keep talking about "freeloaders." Please folks, don't you know that Clinton and Gingrich together pretty well abolished what most of you are thinking about as "welfare." Ain't really no such thing and hasn't been for 15 years.

    What freeloading are you talking about? What specific programs? This is the wrong place but I get pretty fed up when folks talk about non-issues as if they were real.

    The generational thing, the said the same thing about geezer and me. It is never ending. If a person get up in the morning and goes to school, gets up in the morning and goes to work, gets up in the morning and seriously looks for a job, they aren't freeloaders. There's nothing freeloading about working Mc D jobs and still qualifying for Medicaid or EIC.

    Geezer, you didn't cause a problem. Your kids didn't cause a problem, and your grand kids are going to turn out fine unless they are druggies or mentally impaired.
    Hopyard,

    I definitely respect your opinion, despite the fact that I find myself disagreeing with you sometimes. This is one of those times.

    I agree with your middle paragraph above about going to school, work, etc. But you don't have to look too deeply to see how schools are treating kids fundamentally different than when I was young (I'm 46). No more grades, no competitions, nothing that would give a child an incentive to succeed. God forbid you should keep score in a soccer game, someone might get their feelings hurt. And if you are struggling, don't worry, someone will be there to pick up the pieces.

    You don't think that affects them when they get older? I don't really think the successful kids are affected that much. But the ones who struggle definitely are. Instead of accepting the fact that there will be consequences if they are lazy or they fail, they assume someone will be there to pick up the pieces.

    I agree with you that people are fundamentally the same as they were in the dark ages. But the way that they are being conditioned in our schools today is absolutely different, and is producing a generation of people who don't want to compete to succeed.

    That's my current view of the world.

    Doc
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  8. #23
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    This is the great “give me” generation, God forbid, we ask them to work.

    Instead like Robin Hood let’s steal from the rich and give it to the poor.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocPMD View Post
    Hopyard,

    I definitely respect your opinion, despite the fact that I find myself disagreeing with you sometimes. This is one of those times.

    I agree with your middle paragraph above about going to school, work, etc. But you don't have to look too deeply to see how schools are treating kids fundamentally different than when I was young (I'm 46). No more grades, no competitions, nothing that would give a child an incentive to succeed. God forbid you should keep score in a soccer game, someone might get their feelings hurt. And if you are struggling, don't worry, someone will be there to pick up the pieces.
    Do you really think what I put in bold is generally true? Gee, around here they publish the names of the kids on the honor role. In HS the kids fight for every tenth of a point hoping to get into the best colleges. I heard that same complaint about no grading years and years ago, and it isn't true. Teachers grade--- ask Retsupt if any of the teachers in the school where he works (I think he is now an administrator) are permitted to get away without grading, or grading everyone the same. Ask a college admissions officer.

    I agree with you that people are fundamentally the same as they were in the dark ages. But the way that they are being conditioned in our schools today is absolutely different, and is producing a generation of people who don't want to compete to succeed.
    I see kids in our University and our Junior College all the time. They are just as great as our best young people ever were. Our schools still turn out math geniuses, science and inventive talent, art talent. And that IS my present view of the world as well.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Well I guess we could start with (up to) two years of Federal unemployment benefits. Then we could talk about the "right" to health care. We could also talk about HUD, federal housing subsidies and section 8.

    We had unemployment insurance two-three or more generations back. Nothing new there.
    From Wikipedia-- "The idea of unemployment insurance in the United States originated in Wisconsin in 1932.[21] In the United States, there are 50 state unemployment insurance programs plus one each in the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and United States Virgin Islands. Through the Social Security Act of 1935, the federal government of the United States effectively encouraged the individual states to adopt unemployment insurance plans."

    It is kind of hard to blame the ills of our present youth--to whatever extent they exist--on something which existed before their
    great grandparents.

    Housing Assistance- NYC had public housing immediately after WWII that I know of (and maybe before. They had rent control legislation as well. HUD has been around at the national level since the mid-1960s; and of course we know what people thought about the Hippie generation; the same thing they say about today's.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  11. #26
    Member Array DocPMD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Do you really think what I put in bold is generally true? Gee, around here they publish the names of the kids on the honor role. In HS the kids fight for every tenth of a point hoping to get into the best colleges. I heard that same complaint about no grading years and years ago, and it isn't true. Teachers grade--- ask Retsupt if any of the teachers in the school where he works (I think he is now an administrator) are permitted to get away without grading, or grading everyone the same. Ask a college admissions officer.



    I see kids in our University and our Junior College all the time. They are just as great as our best young people ever were. Our schools still turn out math geniuses, science and inventive talent, art talent. And that IS my present view of the world as well.
    My kids are in elementary school. They don't grade. They don't keep score.

    By the time of high school, when they do grade, it's too late. As I said, the kids who are going to succeed, will, despite the school system. And likely 100% due to their parents' direction, not the screwed up schools.

    The problem is with the kids who struggle. They probably don't get much support at home, and at an early age the schools don't give them the tools to cope. When high school rolls around it's too late.

    The kids that you are referring to probably end up in the top 1%. The other 99% end up crying on "Occupy Wall Street". I don't know about you, but when I see the successful guy walking down the street I work harder to try to get there. I don't protest about how unfair it is.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

    Doc
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  12. #27
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    Well my generation had to work, as daddy always told me "Boy get your butt to work aint nobody gonna give you JACK" ; )
    H/D PS Been workin over 35 years !
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  13. #28
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    There's a huge difference between what people consider rights and "entitlements." Far too many people think they are entitled to things they have a right to earn.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  14. #29
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    My kids are in elementary school. They don't grade. They don't keep score.
    Where are your young'uns going to school? If private - find a new school. If not, go private. The most significant predictor of success in school is parental involvement. If the schools won't grade, you should be. Do you attend School Board meetings? Are you actively involved in the School PTA?

    I am not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand. My granddaughter will be in K-12 in Denver in a few years and I'd like to understand the answers.
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    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Where are your young'uns going to school? If private - find a new school. If not, go private. The most significant predictor of success in school is parental involvement. If the schools won't grade, you should be. Do you attend School Board meetings? Are you actively involved in the School PTA?

    I am not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand. My granddaughter will be in K-12 in Denver in a few years and I'd like to understand the answers.
    Yes, and also something sadly least likely to occur within economically struggling families. I think, only from casual observation, that a high predictor is parental expectation. This is why it often appears as if first generation immigrant children are high achievers.

    But we are drifting. The thread was directed at a hypothetical "gimme generation." This in my opinion is just code against
    our various safety net programs, and hatred directed at the poor.

    I was watching the Prime Minister of Singapore on TV over the weekend. He commented that his country strives to be a meritocracy and strives to give each child an equal start; and not from zero. He then took a dig at the US. He commented further that while they have struggling poor in Singapore, and it is not a nice life for those people, they are better off than in most nations of the world, and he continued... "including the US." It was an intentional dig.

    The point is that you can have a meritocracy without being barbaric towards the unfortunate. IMO we are all a great deal better off than we would be without the various "safety net" programs, weak as they mostly are. Just imagine what our country would look like during the present Great Recession if we did not have these programs. 14 million totally desperate people. These programs protect us all.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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