Felony arrest for Giving Toddler a Ride on Motorcycle - Page 3

Felony arrest for Giving Toddler a Ride on Motorcycle

This is a discussion on Felony arrest for Giving Toddler a Ride on Motorcycle within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by SIXTO Sometimes there is discretion, sometimes not. The trouble is that more and more the discretion has been taken out of the ...

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Thread: Felony arrest for Giving Toddler a Ride on Motorcycle

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Sometimes there is discretion, sometimes not.
    The trouble is that more and more the discretion has been taken out of the hands of parents and placed in the all knowing hands of the government. When we see a child harmed in an accident we instantly demand the government do something about it. We as a society are perfectly willing to give up the rights of all parents if we can be convinced that it might save one child.
    When my friends kid got a black eye years ago the teachers at school turned him in to the State. He was informed that he and his wife had to show up at school the next day to explain themselves to the welfare workers.
    Probably a good thing that I had no children because I'm not sure I could have restrained myself had this happened to me.

    Michael
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  2. #32
    Member Array CaptSmith's Avatar
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    Probably the worst thing that is going to happen to this careless father is having to deal with a (mostlikely)morbidly obese, nearsighted, menopausal Child welfare worker, with a huge "Masters of Social work" attitude, and clear mandate to secound guess everything he and his wife have ever done...$.02

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Howdy from the peanut gallery. I have seen LEO's here post that they have discretion. Unless the man became belligerent or there is more to the story, this sounds like a case for discretion.
    Discretion is often situational. By way of example, some states have domestic violence laws that mandate an arrest for any visible injury. The officer has no discretion under that section of the law.

    The same officer might have wide leeway to determine if someone is arrested in an assault that occurs between strangers. Different law = different options for the officer.

    In addition, departmental policy can specify the extent to which an officer has discretion in certain situations.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Discretion is often situational. By way of example, some states have domestic violence laws that mandate an arrest for any visible injury. The officer has no discretion under that section of the law.

    The same officer might have wide leeway to determine if someone is arrested in an assault that occurs between strangers. Different law = different options for the officer.

    In addition, departmental policy can specify the extent to which an officer has discretion in certain situations.
    Dont take this the wrong way. All of that being said, Its still crap.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Dont take this the wrong way. All of that being said, Its still crap.....
    Maybe. I don't think I have enough information either way at this point.

    He certainly deserved the ticket for improperly carrying a passenger, as the child clearly could not reach the foot pegs even had he been seated behind the rider.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  6. #36
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    As others have said, a citation is acceptable but a felony charge is way overboard.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    The law in Florida is that a motorcycle passenger must be able to reach the passenger footpegs/boards with both feet.

    Matt
    If you break that law, is it a traffic violation or felony child endangerment?
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Kids don't belong on bikes as passengers until they can ride pillion, reach the pegs, and hold on during evasive maneuvers - and they deserve nothing less than full riding gear when doing so.
    You are entitled to your opinion, but it's your opinion. Do we want the STATE being a nanny state and determining that for us ? I don't think so......

    If you think it should, then you must agree that the STATE is always right, and so when the Ins Companies in some states started changing policies saying that if you were injured on a motorcycle, on an ATV or 4 wheeler, or any dirt bike.... that the policy would NOT cover any of the injuries ... PERIOD.

    To them, it's all about that they are watching out for our welfare, and trying to stop us from doing anything that is risky.... such as riding a motorcycle.

    In our state, about 85% of all deaths on a motorcycle .... was caused by another vehicle / car... and not the rider on the motorcycle. The other 15% were sole riders losing control at high speeds. So, it's not the motorcycle riders... it's those idiots in cars and trucks.

    So, by that logic , we should outlaw all cars and trucks, because they are causing deaths.
    It's for your own good.
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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Its a difficult question. What is child endangerment? Throwing a kid in the river to teach him to swim? Giving him twinkies for lunch instead of some soymeal burgers and lettuce?
    Do I need to fear some anti gun government agent charging me with felony endangerment because I allow children to handle black powder? It is an explosive after all. Is the fact that children around firearms in my house endangerment? To some I'm sure it is.
    Some time ago I had an eight year old friend priming cartridges for me when I was reloading. Should I be a felon? Should the kid have been placed in protective custody? Should the boys parents have been arrested for allowing it to happen?

    Michael
    Hey...I resemble that! You mean taking a kid fishing in the ocean, telling him to look at the pretty fish, pushing him over the edge of the boat when he leans over to look, and driving away is child endangerment? I was endangered my whole life! At least I learned to swim...and real quick too!
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    The trouble is that more and more the discretion has been taken out of the hands of parents and placed in the all knowing hands of the government. When we see a child harmed in an accident we instantly demand the government do something about it. We as a society are perfectly willing to give up the rights of all parents if we can be convinced that it might save one child.
    When my friends kid got a black eye years ago the teachers at school turned him in to the State. He was informed that he and his wife had to show up at school the next day to explain themselves to the welfare workers.
    Probably a good thing that I had no children because I'm not sure I could have restrained myself had this happened to me.

    Michael
    OTOH, if there had been no investigation into the black eye, the kid might have turned out to be one who ends up dead from
    a severe beating.

    This whole business is one of the most difficult for our society.

    And, attitudes on all manner of things change with time. Even on things we think are immutable. I have been reading the biography of Alexander Hamilton. A political issue arose in NY State during the time of the Articles of Confederation, and it was one on which Hamilton and the NY Governor took opposite views (their usual positions as rivals). Apparently, in those days, it was not uncommon and not unlawful for mothers to kill new born infants; especially if they were thought illegitimate. It seems the state at that time had no concern for the welfare of the new born but did have an interest in shaming the mother about the illegitimacy by requiring with a new law proposed that the mother publish the event in a newspaper. Hamiltion, himself probably an illegitimate child, opposed the law for personal reasons as well as reasons of political rivalry.

    What I am getting at is that our collective ideas about what is and what is not acceptable for individuals, and what is and what is not the business of government, are fluid. They are, contrary to what most of us think, rather fluid over time.

    We put a very high premium on child safety and welfare today, and a lower premium on parental prerogatives then we did in
    the past when the old Roman law concept of "Pater Familias " conferred powers of life and death over the immediate family members. Pater familias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  11. #41
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Maybe. I don't think I have enough information either way at this point.

    He certainly deserved the ticket for improperly carrying a passenger, as the child clearly could not reach the foot pegs even had he been seated behind the rider.
    A ticket yea, I can live with that, but to be arrested. I have let both of mine dry the car while sitting on my lap. Not on busy streets, but around the neighbor hood. IMO things are getting to far out of control. When you have a lasting life experience with a parent or loved one it is burned into your memory bank and you tell yourself, Im going to do that with my kids. We cannot allow them to legislate everything that may be dangerous out of our lives. That is the "crap" I was talking about...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  12. #42
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    We do put a higher priority on safety than we ever did in the past. I just have a problem with the hypocrisy of claiming that we live in a free society while demanding that we give up that freedom in order to be safe.

    Lets at least be honest about it. We are no longer free. Freedom is dangerous and it can be painful and we cannot accept either in our lives anymore.

    Michael
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    We do put a higher priority on safety than we ever did in the past. I just have a problem with the hypocrisy of claiming that we live in a free society while demanding that we give up that freedom in order to be safe.

    Lets at least be honest about it. We are no longer free. Freedom is dangerous and it can be painful and we cannot accept either in our lives anymore.

    Michael
    Mike, I actually sort of agree with your basic gripe, but the problem is that society is always making lots of trade offs and compromises. You favor additional parental freedom, but what price are you willing to pay for that? Are you willing to go back to the freedom of Pater Familias where the head of the household could kill his child at will if he deemed that good for the family?

    That was a great deal of freedom --and it was the way society lived for a couple of thousand years. Are you willing, to use the example I gave, permit a mother to engage in infanticide for the sake of "respectability?" That is freedom too.

    So, assuming your answer to both above is no, I think we are really arguing about the boundaries around which parental rights and parental freedom circle each other. As many things, we will all constantly debate these because all we can achieve is an uneasy compromise; there is no particular boundary which will satisfy everyone. There are plenty of people who fully believe
    "I brought you into the world and I can take you out." And there are plenty of others who would "protect" a child from much less fatal faults. Somewhere in the unknowable middle is where we find a balance--- which satisfies no one.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    If you think it should, then you must agree that the STATE is always right, ... drivel, drivel, drivel ....
    So, by that logic , we should outlaw all cars and trucks, because they are causing deaths.
    It's for your own good.
    That's a strawman argument - don't try putting words in my mouth; you only accomplish illustrating your own ignorance and irrational thought process.

    Gov't is not always right, and I said anything close to that. This isn't about what the gov't is doing to consenting adults, it's about keeping kids who are unable to make sound and informed decisions out of harm's way when their parents are so ignorant as to needlessly put their lives in danger. What the insurance companies do is private enterprise - take your $$$ somewhere else and the policies will change. Did the state require them to change their policies??? I don't care if an adult wears a helmet or not, as long as they don't expect the state they are rebelling against to spend tens/hundreds of thousands of $$$ to keep them alive or fix their body; but don't expect me to support a parent that will needlessly endanger a child. Times change, hopefully people learn from the past and realize that just b/c it was accepted in the past, doesn't mean it's ok. Parents used to drive/ride home from the hospital with a newborn in their arms, do you think that is ok to do now???

    AFA your stats about motorcycle deaths - it's complete horse pucky; hopefully you don't really believe that. Read the Hurt report about what really happens during/before motorcycle accidents and what a responsible rider does to mitigate the inherent risks of riding a motorcycle. I've successfully dealt with other motorists not noticing me on a bike; have seen the idiocy of other riders; talked with riders who were involved in accidents or near misses and found that they were severely lacking in basic riding knowledge and skills; and talked with riders who were doing all the right things and were still involved in an accident.

    With freedom comes responsibility. Unfortunately, these days people usually forget the responsibility part.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Array foxytwo's Avatar
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    My dad always took my brother and me on his cycle in the very early 40s. I was three and my brother was 5, I rode on the gas tank in front of my dad, my brother rode on the seat behind my dad. We rode in town and on the highway following the the speed laws, which on the highway at that time was 60mph. I could see no problem with the Tampa man enjoying a ride with his child, as long as he is safe.

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