Converted two anti's,well sort of

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Converted two anti's,well sort of

    Hey,
    I had some friends over last night for dinner who are very anti-gun. We always have friendly discussions on it, not debates. They are not stupid people. They know guns don't go off by themselves or if guns were banned the BG's would be the only one with guns. They want a utopia type world where no guns exist and they know that won't happen. Anyway, all the usual stuff I see on "how to convert an anti" are IMO BS for at least the folks I know. Those tactics work for ignorant/fearful people. Anyway, we were talking about voting and rights and general political stuff. So I asked them what they thought the 2nd A meant and if they knew the history of the rulings. So we had a friendly chat and after a while they are still anti gun but not anti 2A. They USE to give to the Brady Bunch but will no longer. I used this point and they agreed:the 1st A is important because it allows for our freedom of speech but also it allows for a lot of things an individual might find objectionable (porn, language in movies, etc..). They will write to senators on the upcoming vote in NH that you would not need a permit for CC. They will urge them to vote no. Some of the first rulings early in the 1800's did interpret that CC is not what the founding founders wanted. OC was fine. But hey, not bad for an evening. I guess the thing is, I have felt it is not my job to be an evangelist to get people to like guns. They need to at least respect the 2nd A.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Update: Evidently when my friends left they also left a message to let us know who they will still vote for. The put an Obama bumper sticker on my wifes Jeep! She didn't know about it until a coworker was surprised to see it on her jeep when she got to work. It was magnetic though. I'll get him back.

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    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    The challenge is to get Anti people to really look at their "utopian" stance and see that no matter how much they charge forward in banning things, that will never ever stop the crime or criminal, or the criminal usage of said object.

    It makes them feel better about the crappy world we must live in and all those who choose to stick their head into the sand when it comes down to firearms rights and why we want and need them just won't ever get it.

    Until something really bad happens to them and the police can't be there lickety split to save them from the destruction at hand or come to the realization that Law Enforcement while good and necessary, do not have the duty to protect.

    I seldom engage in conversations with hard-core anti people, even though they believe in the 2A they also feel that firearms should be extremely and heavily regulated, especially by the Government.

    One can only hope your Anti's will see how ignorant their philosophy can be when dealing with those who will not only use a firearm in a non legal fashion, but don't care squat what law is in place or how much guns are regulated.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    JoJoGunn: I think you either missed what happened or I did not articulate well (only one cup of coffee this morning).
    The challenge is to get Anti people to really look at their "utopian" stance and see that no matter how much they charge forward in banning things, that will never ever stop the crime or criminal, or the criminal usage of said object.
    I said they wish it would be like that but they live in the real world and know it won't be like that. They are not in denial. I want to win the lottery but that ain't going to happen either.
    Until something really bad happens to them and the police can't be there lickety split to save them from the destruction at hand or come to the realization that Law Enforcement while good and necessary, do not have the duty to protect.
    Again, they understand the risks. They don't like guns. They understand the cops would not get their in time. Again, they are not living in a dream world. They have thought about and is a personal choice.
    even though they believe in the 2A they also feel that firearms should be extremely and heavily regulated, especially by the Government.
    The only thing they feel should be "regulated" is the issuance of CCW's at the state level. They do not now believe to heavily regulate firearms.

    They are perfectly aware of what is going on in the world. If they choose to not carry or own firearms it is up to them. I would not call making informed decisions ignorant. I might call it ill advised.
    Hieny and JoJoGunn like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Update: Evidently when my friends left they also left a message to let us know who they will still vote for. The put an Obama bumper sticker on my wifes Jeep! She didn't know about it until a coworker was surprised to see it on her jeep when she got to work. It was magnetic though. I'll get him back.
    As horrifying as that is... It's kinda funny.
    rolyat63 likes this.
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    It's humorous when you consider that, though people are trapped in their car by seatbelts and I'm sure some are killed by airbag deployment we all wear ours now, and we think 'oh, not me, the airbag will save lilttle ole me'.

    Yet with firearms, though a lot of people are saved through intelligent and prudent use, we want -nothing- to do with SD if we can help it, and some substantial fraction want to die rather than defend themselves.

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    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Update: Evidently when my friends left they also left a message to let us know who they will still vote for. The put an Obama bumper sticker on my wifes Jeep! She didn't know about it until a coworker was surprised to see it on her jeep when she got to work. It was magnetic though. I'll get him back.

    I'd set his vehicle on fire!


    Just kidding hope you get him back pretty good though. Let us know what you come up with. Maybe a bumper sticker on his related to guns. "Driver only carries $20 worth of ammo" or "Keep honking I'm reloading" Or an O.B.A.M.A. sticker One Big *** Mistake America

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    Member Array gigamortis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Update: Evidently when my friends left they also left a message to let us know who they will still vote for. The put an Obama bumper sticker on my wifes Jeep! She didn't know about it until a coworker was surprised to see it on her jeep when she got to work. It was magnetic though. I'll get him back.
    Oooohhhh nooooo! Now you are going to have to wash the whole jeep!

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    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Hey,
    I had some friends over last night for dinner who are very anti-gun. We always have friendly discussions on it, not debates. They are not stupid people. They know guns don't go off by themselves or if guns were banned the BG's would be the only one with guns. They want a utopia type world where no guns exist and they know that won't happen. Anyway, all the usual stuff I see on "how to convert an anti" are IMO BS for at least the folks I know. Those tactics work for ignorant/fearful people. Anyway, we were talking about voting and rights and general political stuff. So I asked them what they thought the 2nd A meant and if they knew the history of the rulings. So we had a friendly chat and after a while they are still anti gun but not anti 2A. They USE to give to the Brady Bunch but will no longer. I used this point and they agreed:the 1st A is important because it allows for our freedom of speech but also it allows for a lot of things an individual might find objectionable (porn, language in movies, etc..). They will write to senators on the upcoming vote in NH that you would not need a permit for CC. They will urge them to vote no. Some of the first rulings early in the 1800's did interpret that CC is not what the founding founders wanted. OC was fine. But hey, not bad for an evening. I guess the thing is, I have felt it is not my job to be an evangelist to get people to like guns. They need to at least respect the 2nd A.
    Sometimes there are thoroughly rational people on both sides of a disagreement, like the OP noted. However, it's unfortunately the thoroughly irrational people that make headlines.
    morintp likes this.

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    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyColby View Post
    I'd set his vehicle on fire!


    Just kidding hope you get him back pretty good though. Let us know what you come up with. Maybe a bumper sticker on his related to guns. "Driver only carries $20 worth of ammo" or "Keep honking I'm reloading" Or an O.B.A.M.A. sticker One Big *** Mistake America
    Me too.....Only my friends know I don't just get even; I escalate; I wouldn't use a magnetic sticker

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Changing one mind at a time..Good work Sun......
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Me too.....Only my friends know I don't just get even; I escalate; I wouldn't use a magnetic sticker
    Well, since everybody is ignoring what this thread was about and instead focusing on revenge (BTW:Thanks LOL) I have decided when we go to his house next I am going to change his keyboard layout to a Dvorak layout. "typing this" would look like "yflcbi ydco". That will take him awhile to figure out. I am going to change his "auto correct" in MS Word so when he types his name or "I" it corrects to "Ron Paul for President". And finally I am going to map his ESC key so when he is frustrated and hits it says"gotcha"

    But anyway, he is a cool dude so I can't do too much to him. He will watch my family shoot when he visits (our range is our land) but just won't touch them. He loves my antique and military collection. He is a history teacher and he will pick those up....go figure.

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    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    I like it

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I like to be able to discuss with rational people... the stuff that works for the "emotionally charged" folks will not work with those who can reason... but there's usually an emotional basis at the root of their reasoned logic... Very hard to find in the intelligent folks sometimes.. like a good pearl... well covered and hid deep.

    Here is a letter from some Utopians back in the day.... from 1981... (and I'm told that even then they would have been carrying illegally but perhaps not.)

    Link to a long but good read
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

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    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Great read oakchas, thanx.
    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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