Good hand-to-hand combat training?

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  1. #1
    Member Array tactilame's Avatar
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    Good hand-to-hand combat training?

    Hey everyone, I wasn't sure where to post this question, so I figured I'd post it in Off Topic. Could y'all be so kind as to recommend some hand-to-hand training/martial arts/etc?

    I've been doing a lot of thinking lately, and while I certainly want to take my firearms training further, I feel like I need to be well-rounded in my self-defense capabilities. In a combat scenario with an attacker who doesn't have a weapon, or maybe with an attacker who has a knife (and is maybe closing too fast to draw), I'd just like to have as many options as possible for defending myself. More specifically, I'd like to be more confident in my ability to end things in a less-than-lethal way, if I were ever attacked by someone whose intent was just to hurt me, not kill me.

    There's a whole host of variables and potential scenarios we could talk about all day, I'm not interested in that; what I AM interested in is being as well-rounded as possible and being as prepared as possible for as many scenarios as possible.

    So, to be completely clear, I'm not looking for something I can use to show off. I'm not looking for a martial art to compete in. I'm looking for something completely straightforward and realistic. I've heard good things about Krav Maga, as well as a few other MMA-type training programs, but I really have no idea where to begin. As I said, I'm only interested in stuff I can use to defend myself. And I AM interested in pushing myself hard. Anything that is completely no-frills, combat oriented, and life-saving oriented is what I'm looking for. If I am ever attacked, I want to be able to end it quickly and brutally. I'm not looking to spar with attackers or show off.

    Sorry for the rant! Any ideas?? Please?

    -C
    "Shoot low boys, they're riding Shetland ponies." -Lewis Grizzard

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Krav IMO is one of the best, if not the best for self defense.

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    You will no doubt get a wide range of advice. You can find everything out there somewhere from a 3 hour set of DVDs to
    a weekend SD course, to the fine artistry of beautifully executed traditional moves from oriental arts of one sort or another.

    I have rather accidentally been exposed to elements of several different styles. I've put lots and lots of hours and time and money into it all. Some of it would likely be useless in a real world confrontation; some of it might or might not work---remember your opponent might be trained too-- in Jail House. Seriously, there is a martial art form with that name; great for close quarters with small unnoticed moves. Its a derivative of Brazilian I think.

    Anyone who tells you there is one way, or one system which will guarantee your safety is a liar.

    The best SD has always been staying out of trouble in the first place; staying away from places where the BGs are likely to hang out or find you.

    The next best defense is distance and fast feet coupled with a big mouth screaming fire or something of the sort.

    If you have to get to down and dirty H2H, you've done something wrong; unless you are in LE.

    I think Krav has a lot going for it. I actually also think it overlooks and omits a great deal. The major thing about Krav that I like is that basically the same few moves are used in a variety of situations and they tend to be moves made with large muscle groups. It is not elegant like some jujitso and Akido.

    It tends to be heavy on (at the advanced end) things of importance to soldiers; gun disarms. Lighter on stick and knife defense. Some of the stick and cane arts and things which use of a flashlight might be more practical for real life.
    I've had situations where bo-staff training was something I counted on, but that was because I was able to set up some rakes and shovels in a yard, out of an abundance of caution concerning a belligerent tradesman I thought I might need to dismiss.

    Your age, your build, your health, your innate athleticism, all play a part in what will work for you and what will not work for you.

    Some arts emphasize moving away from your attacker--- Krav tends to take you to the outside/dead side, a good thing. Others, bring you in.
    I began with an art which tends to bring you in; the other day I told my instructor "I just walked into a knife."

    There is no magic, and there are no short cuts. And frankly, I don't think I will ever be turned into a true l fighter. An instinctive natural fighter (many BGs are instinctive natural fighters) will always have the edge. They'll out gouge, out kick, and ignore pain better than we normal good guys ever will.

    Keep in mind that depending on where you live you might have to settle for what is available rather than what would be best for you. And it is also very very hard to know if the guy who opened the gym down the road knows anything anyway.

    So with that long ramble, Good Luck.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Ex Member Array 1hogfan83's Avatar
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    Aikido, hands down. Just ask steven seagal. All jokes aside, it is some serious stuff. You dont see it as often because it is only a defensive art. It also is much easier because it uses the attackers strength, speed, weight, ect against them. The con would be that your not going to learn it over the weekend. It is a very difficult art to learn, taking many years to be proficent in. Sambo would also be a good option, nobody ever called a russian a wussy. BJJ would be out I think, with multiple attackers you would have no chance,"Excuse me sir, could you please wait while I choke your friend out, thank you sir."

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    Member Array All_Business's Avatar
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    Jiu jitsu without question. Teaches you to out think your opponent almost like a game of chess. Strength does not matter at all, with proper technique and use of leverage I could toss around someone twice my weight like a rag doll. It's alittle pricy for my blood but I love every minute of my training and wouldn't give it up for any other fighting art. This doesn't really mean or say anything in particular, but the first two Mixed Martial Arts tournaments, (UFC) were won by Royce Graci, a jiu jitsu black belt.
    "When that gun comes out of that holster; it's business time." -Chris Costa

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    Member Array SandWMandP's Avatar
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    I trained in kenpo for about 5 years. It's very strait ahead fighting, no realy fancy stuff. And the marines use it, that's got to say something for it.

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    Member Array beni's Avatar
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    I started Krav Maga a few weeks ago. I like it because the self defense situations they go over are things that you are likely to run into. Like Hopyard said they show you a few moves that can be used in a variety of situations. In the three weeks since I've started we have gone over blocking techniques, the basic kicks and punches, ground fighting, and breaking out of choke holds. The techniques they teach are simple and even though I have just started I feel a lot more confident about defending myself in a H2H fight.

    As a plus and this may vary based on what training center you attend or the instructors, they have also incorporated in the lessons some techniques that could be used by people with CWPs. Again this may vary depending on the instructors you have.

    Another nice thing about Krav Maga is that it is a great workout and a good way to get into and stay in shape. Even though I've been running 2-4 miles 5 days a week for the past year, I get smoked in my Krav classes.

    The gym I go to also has BJJ and MMA classes. The membership I purchased allows me to go to an unlimited number of any of these classes I want. Since I go 4 times a week the membership pays for itself as opposed to just paying per class. If you have a gym like that in your area then you can get more variety in the types of martial arts you learn. When I initially contacted them for information about the class they encouraged me to come out and demo a class to see if I like it. I would recommend a demo class to see if it is for you.

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Here's one way to look at it, and it may be the most helpful: anything done at a high level will be effective. Do some research and find out who does what in your area and who does it the best. You're probably a normal guy with a busy schedule, so look for the most efficient way to train.

    Boxing rules the street, however.

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    Member Array rick21's Avatar
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    Filipino Martial Arts. Battle tested since 1521.

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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    i recommend to all my students to do 6 months of what ever MA suits your fancy.

    im partial to Kung-Fu though the Master i've worked with and sent students to since
    1980 has retired. those who 'took over' are not as gun centric as he was.

    time changes everything
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    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    Here's one way to look at it, and it may be the most helpful: anything done at a high level will be effective. Do some research and find out who does what in your area and who does it the best. You're probably a normal guy with a busy schedule, so look for the most efficient way to train.

    Boxing rules the street, however.
    So too dirty tricks, sneaky attacks, knives. My fear is that what starts off looking like fists will turn out to be a cribbed knife.

    And the BGs won't hesitate to employ any of them; except sometimes they aren't smart enough to do sneaky stuff and telegraph their intentions.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    So too dirty tricks, sneaky attacks, knives. My fear is that what starts off looking like fists will turn out to be a cribbed knife.

    And the BGs won't hesitate to employ any of them; except sometimes they aren't smart enough to do sneaky stuff and telegraph their intentions.
    And boxing will help with that - like actual boxing, where you spar a lot. Once people start figuring out range and angles, and some untrained guy tries to punch you, everything slows down. Learning how to slip punches and throw good hard punches will be helpful in any situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    And boxing will help with that - like actual boxing, where you spar a lot. Once people start figuring out range and angles, and some untrained guy tries to punch you, everything slows down. Learning how to slip punches and throw good hard punches will be helpful in any situation.
    I do a lot of that, but I still fear the cribbed knife. And with reason. Btw, for the curious, Krav has a fair boxing component, but since I get my lessons at an MMA place, I do lots of kick boxing that is outside of the formal Krav curriculum.

    Someone mentioned the Filipino arts. I have some issues with them. They are taught as stick fighting, and yes, the stick fighting has empty hand applications, but the real utility of the movement comes I think in using a knife. The judo-jujitso like components are basic MA as best I can tell. Then, there is plenty that requires a fine use of motor skills, which may disappear
    in the real world.

    If I were starting over from ground zero I think I would want something that is more structured; I'm not talking 200 forms and Kata, but something where you build from basics. I think Krav taught by a traditional Krav instructor would do that. In my case
    we've just mixed up so much krav, traditional TK, traditional karate, Arnis, HS wrestling/grappling, judo, jujitso, and anything else that comes to the mind and attention of an MMA fighter, that I truly don't know any of them --though I have a large bag of tricks.

    Best trick of course is don't be there.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandWMandP View Post
    I trained in kenpo for about 5 years. It's very strait ahead fighting, no realy fancy stuff. And the marines use it, that's got to say something for it.
    Having trained in Kenpo for over 25 years and teaching it since 1990, I agree that it is an excellent art. However, it is quite involved and requires a lot of time to master. Many of the techniques are complicated for someone who doesn't have several days a week to train. I had the time to train back in the day, so I excelled at Kenpo.

    I am also a Force Training Instructor for Krav Maga. Krav is definitely easier to learn. It is a very basic system that is very effective. The principle of one defense for several attacks as opposed to several defenses to one attack makes a lot of sense for a simple form of SD.

    I would never speak badly about any martial art. In the big scheme of things, it is the artist more than the art. Whatever style you decide on, give it 100%. Train the way you fight and fight the way you train.
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    You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    Boxing rules the street, however.
    Boxing doesn't rule anything friend. I've never seen a street fight that stayed up for more than 30 seconds. I will agree that learning to strike and to avoid strikes is a valuable tool, it doesn't rule though.

    Purely as techniques go, grappling wins fights. The ability to grapple is like a foreign language. You either know it or you're completely lost.

    More than anything though, the will to do what the other guy won't do is what wins fights.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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