Crisis of Character

This is a discussion on Crisis of Character within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by wmhawth;2236949[B ]Many of us remember when manners were nicer, language was nicer, clothing was more tasteful, courtesy was expected and music was ...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth;2236949[B
    ]Many of us remember when manners were nicer, language was nicer, clothing was more tasteful, courtesy was expected and music was really music. Things seem topsy turvy now. [/B] .
    I have been reading tons of early American History and biography of the founders. Trust me, there is nothing new
    under the sun. There was nothing civil about what Hamilton, Burr, Jefferson and Adams all wrote, or privately thought, or
    had surrogates print, about one another-- even though all were personal friends at one point or another before various
    feuds brought about breakups, an odd reconciliation, and a deadly duel. There were bankruptcy, fraud, corruption, drunks, liars, womanizers, corrupt clergy, and flame throwers of all varieties.

    There were lazy people who would not work, or who lived off the slave labor of others, and there were industrious people who
    prospered in adversity. There were young people thrown out of college for pranks and misbehavior.

    Absolutely nothing has changed. People will always be people.

    The only thing that has really changed is the rapidity with which we hear about it, and the ease with which the
    more blatant of these things can be exaggerated and the exaggeration rapidly disseminated to the gullible.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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  3. #32
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    One answer is hidden inside the editorial:

    The soldier who brought the pictures to the Times told their veteran war correspondent, David Zucchino, that he was, in Zucchino's words, "very concerned about what he said was a breakdown in . . . discipline and professionalism" among the troops.
    This was the first thing that struck me when I heard about that story. I assumed someone posted the pictures on Facebook or Twitter or something equally stupid. When I heard that a concerned soldier brought them to light, I was extrememly encouraged.

    Maybe I have a different perspective because I have the pleasure of working with the greatest group of Americans I can think of. I see a cross-section of America's youth, the leadership of the military and those in between every day. And I'm encouraged.
    "Your mind is the weapon, all the rest are just tools." --gasmitty

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I have been reading tons of early American History and biography of the founders. Trust me, there is nothing new
    under the sun. There was nothing civil about what Hamilton, Burr, Jefferson and Adams all wrote, or privately thought, or
    had surrogates print, about one another-- even though all were personal friends at one point or another before various
    feuds brought about breakups, an odd reconciliation, and a deadly duel. There were bankruptcy, fraud, corruption, drunks, liars, womanizers, corrupt clergy, and flame throwers of all varieties.

    There were lazy people who would not work, or who lived off the slave labor of others, and there were industrious people who
    prospered in adversity. There were young people thrown out of college for pranks and misbehavior.

    Absolutely nothing has changed. People will always be people.

    The only thing that has really changed is the rapidity with which we hear about it, and the ease with which the
    more blatant of these things can be exaggerated and the exaggeration rapidly disseminated to the gullible.
    As usual Hopyard I respectfully disagree. A lot absolutely has changed, especially in the youth. I'm only 23, barely one generation and I can already see what children these days are being subjected to that my generation was not, or not as much, and how it is affecting them. Things are changing.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Many of us remember when manners were nicer, language was nicer, clothing was more tasteful, courtesy was expected and music was really music. Things seem topsy turvy now. What was once moral and decent is now politically incorrect and things that were once crude, vulgar, and unacceptable are now beamed into our living rooms and considered acceptable. Walk past any group of kids and you can hear language that would make a teamster blush. The coarsening of the culture started when we became politically correct and began accepting things that should not be accepted in the name of tolerance. As for corruption in high offices and turbulence in American history, it's always been there but for us children of the 1950s it seems we have lived in more genteel times.
    AMEN!!!

    I lay plenty of blame at the feet of Dr. Spock. When parents stopped spanking, children began the slide down the slippery slope.
    I lay blame with the fatherless households. Hillary wrote a book titled "It Takes a Village"...wrong! It takes a mother and father committed to their children.
    I lay blame with the public school systems for the dumbing down of our children, in the name of tolerance and political correctness.
    I lay blame with the past Supreme Courts for their rulings on seperation of Church and State. The founders intended that clause to keep the Government out of the Church, not to keep the church out of the Government, a Government founded on Christian principals.

    There is plenty more blame to go around, it has taken a "perfect storm" of not caring, too busy, unconcerned, doesn't affect me, tolerance of everything, lack of standing up for what is right, etc...

    Boils down to "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it".

    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
    Thomas Jefferson

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  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I have been reading tons of early American History and biography of the founders. Trust me, there is nothing new
    under the sun. There was nothing civil about what Hamilton, Burr, Jefferson and Adams all wrote, or privately thought, or
    had surrogates print, about one another-- even though all were personal friends at one point or another before various
    feuds brought about breakups, an odd reconciliation, and a deadly duel. There were bankruptcy, fraud, corruption, drunks, liars, womanizers, corrupt clergy, and flame throwers of all varieties.

    There were lazy people who would not work, or who lived off the slave labor of others, and there were industrious people who
    prospered in adversity. There were young people thrown out of college for pranks and misbehavior.

    Absolutely nothing has changed. People will always be people.

    The only thing that has really changed is the rapidity with which we hear about it, and the ease with which the
    more blatant of these things can be exaggerated and the exaggeration rapidly disseminated to the gullible.
    I agree to point "Hop", but I believe we have reached a level of widespread savagery and just plain evil meaness that I don't believe has existed in this country in years past. Sure there were isolated instances of savagery, but I'm speaking of the widespread almost commonplace events we see today.

    There really appears to be little or no regard for human life, our society is more concerned with animal rights, and cruelty to animals than it is with human sufferings.
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
    Thomas Jefferson

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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I have been reading tons of early American History and biography of the founders. Trust me, there is nothing new
    under the sun. There was nothing civil about what Hamilton, Burr, Jefferson and Adams all wrote, or privately thought, or
    had surrogates print, about one another-- even though all were personal friends at one point or another before various
    feuds brought about breakups, an odd reconciliation, and a deadly duel. There were bankruptcy, fraud, corruption, drunks, liars, womanizers, corrupt clergy, and flame throwers of all varieties.

    There were lazy people who would not work, or who lived off the slave labor of others, and there were industrious people who
    prospered in adversity. There were young people thrown out of college for pranks and misbehavior.

    Absolutely nothing has changed. People will always be people.

    The only thing that has really changed is the rapidity with which we hear about it, and the ease with which the
    more blatant of these things can be exaggerated and the exaggeration rapidly disseminated to the gullible.
    A thorough knowledge of history does bring perspective. People have done evil, stupid things ever since Adam and Eve got tossed out of the garden. Honestly, if I was alive during WWII, I would have probably thought that Hitler was the anti-christ and the prophecies of the book of Revelation were coming to conclusion.

    I always appreciate the historical knowledge that you bring, Hopy (I like the theories that you're an immortal and are actually thousands of years old, LOL). However, I do stop short of shrugging current events off as "same thing different day". History does have a tendency to repeat itself, but that provides no assurance that there is no ragged edge of disaster.
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    I like the theories that you're an immortal and are actually thousands of years old, LOL
    This just made me smile this morning!

  9. #38
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    I think a recent change in times is the Dramatic belief that as a citizen, we are all "entitled" to a life of luxury. The entitlement theory has eroded our sense of personal responsibility as American citizens. No longer do you need to work To put food on the table, now we're "entitled" to it. The State should give you food. The state will feed you, clothe you, educate you, transport you, protect you, house you, pay you all because now your "entitled" to it. People now believe Freedom means freebies, not the freedom to be anything you want to be.
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    The founders intended that clause to keep the Government out of the Church, not to keep the church out of the Government,
    This is absolutely not true. Are you telling me you want the Westboro Baptist Church, or the Nation of Islam to have a say in running our government?

    The world is not in a downward spiral. My grandparents said the same thing about my parents' generation. I'm certain my great-grandparent's generation said the same about their kids. The world is getting safer: you are less likely to die of violence today than at any point in history. Even the idea that war and violence are bad is a relatively new one. For crying out loud, the Catholic Church executed thousands of people in the 16th and 17th century (never mind how many civilizations were slaughtered by God's people in the Old testament). How's this for character: Sacred Prostitution has been practiced for thousands of years in various cultures and religions. And you think Snooki giving it up on MTV is the end of civilization? Rape, murder and violent crime in general are at their lowest point in human history.

    Check it out for yourself

    Even reading the CDC's death rates, you have to go down to #10 before you find a violent cause of death, and that's suicide. With dozens of channels blasting out 24/7 "news" telling us the world is going to hell in a handbasket, it's no wonder suicide is up there.

    The simple fact that we can read Noonan's editorial and feel outraged is evidence that character still exists. Or are only DC members the only human beings who are no longer morally bankrupt?
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    "Your mind is the weapon, all the rest are just tools." --gasmitty

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    ...widespread savagery and just plain evil meaness that I don't believe has existed in this country in years past. Sure there were isolated instances of savagery...
    Tell that to Native Americans, freed slaves, women, Japanese immigrants, et al. These incidents were not "isolated."
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    "Your mind is the weapon, all the rest are just tools." --gasmitty

  12. #41
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    Street thugs now believe they are vehemently entitled to "respect". Teenagers are gunned down daily in the streets because they were "disrespectin'"... I was taught early on that Respect was earned, not given. It's what you've made of yourself as a Man (or a woman) that earns respect. Success earns respect, owning your own business, doing well at your job, serving your country or your community... Now it's all about respectin' gang territory, colors, etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    I agree to point "Hop", but I believe we have reached a level of widespread savagery and just plain evil meaness that I don't believe has existed in this country in years past. Sure there were isolated instances of savagery, but I'm speaking of the widespread almost commonplace events we see today.
    You "see them today" because we now have an unparalleled in history ability to report these acts to an entire nation sometimes as they are happening.

    The worst mass murder in a school wasn't Columbine or Virginia Tech, it was in 1927 in an idyllic, small, rural town (44 dead, over 50 injured).

    There really appears to be little or no regard for human life,
    Then why is murder and all violent crime down? Why has it been plummeting for two decades? I'd say crime rates are a good barometer for morality. And they are dropping. Even in the face of economic problems, crime keeps going down.

    Our country has lots of legitimate problems, yelling about the rappers and the kids with sagging shorts and GET OFF MY LAWN doesn't address them.
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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    You "see them today" because we now have an unparalleled in history ability to report these acts to an entire nation sometimes as they are happening.

    The worst mass murder in a school wasn't Columbine or Virginia Tech, it was in 1927 in an idyllic, small, rural town (44 dead, over 50 injured).



    Then why is murder and all violent crime down? Why has it been plummeting for two decades? I'd say crime rates are a good barometer for morality. And they are dropping. Even in the face of economic problems, crime keeps going down.

    Our country has lots of legitimate problems, yelling about the rappers and the kids with sagging shorts and GET OFF MY LAWN doesn't address them.
    I think you will see that crime and violent crime is on it's way back up... in the next UCR... I could be wrong.

    Yes this country faces a lot of issues. And some of what we are seeing now is "pendulum swing." But, as population increases the "weight" of the pendulum increases... it may swing a bit further each time. Is this the time that the pendulum bearing is broken?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moops View Post
    This is absolutely not true. Are you telling me you want the Westboro Baptist Church, or the Nation of Islam to have a say in running our government?

    The world is not in a downward spiral. My grandparents said the same thing about my parents' generation. I'm certain my great-grandparent's generation said the same about their kids. The world is getting safer: you are less likely to die of violence today than at any point in history. Even the idea that war and violence are bad is a relatively new one. For crying out loud, the Catholic Church executed thousands of people in the 16th and 17th century (never mind how many civilizations were slaughtered by God's people in the Old testament). How's this for character: Sacred Prostitution has been practiced for thousands of years in various cultures and religions. And you think Snooki giving it up on MTV is the end of civilization? Rape, murder and violent crime in general are at their lowest point in human history.

    Check it out for yourself

    Even reading the CDC's death rates, you have to go down to #10 before you find a violent cause of death, and that's suicide. With dozens of channels blasting out 24/7 "news" telling us the world is going to hell in a handbasket, it's no wonder suicide is up there.

    The simple fact that we can read Noonan's editorial and feel outraged is evidence that character still exists. Or are only DC members the only human beings who are no longer morally bankrupt?
    Everyone is to have a say in how our government is run! No I do not want the church dictating policy to the government.
    I would much prefer to have our government run by Godly men, rather than by a bunch of self-serving, greedy, criminals as it is now!

    Crime statistics may be generally trending down, but "riddle me this Batman" why could you let your children out to play 20 years ago without worrying, but today you can't let them out of your sight? Thirty years ago you could walk the streets anywhere in the country but the worst of neighborhoods, try that today.
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    You "see them today" because we now have an unparalleled in history ability to report these acts to an entire nation sometimes as they are happening.

    The worst mass murder in a school wasn't Columbine or Virginia Tech, it was in 1927 in an idyllic, small, rural town (44 dead, over 50 injured).



    Then why is murder and all violent crime down? Why has it been plummeting for two decades? I'd say crime rates are a good barometer for morality. And they are dropping. Even in the face of economic problems, crime keeps going down.

    Our country has lots of legitimate problems, yelling about the rappers and the kids with sagging shorts and GET OFF MY LAWN doesn't address them.

    Not even once have I mentioned rappers, or teenagers, or baggy pants or kids on my lawn!

    I was, and am talking about serious crime, violent crime, being perpetrated at will on citizens of this country.

    Then why is murder and all violent crime down? Why has it been plummeting for two decades? I'd say crime rates are a good barometer for morality.
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
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