Crisis of Character

This is a discussion on Crisis of Character within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI As usual Hopyard I respectfully disagree. A lot absolutely has changed, especially in the youth. I'm only 23, barely one generation ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    As usual Hopyard I respectfully disagree. A lot absolutely has changed, especially in the youth. I'm only 23, barely one generation and I can already see what children these days are being subjected to that my generation was not, or not as much, and how it is affecting them. Things are changing.
    Since you are only 23, you still lack the advantage of a long time on earth to observe human nature. In every generation, going back even to the Greeks, the elders decried the youth and the youth (in some societies) failed to venerate wisdom accumulated through time.

    I live in a community with vast numbers of University students and Junior College Students. There is always a tiny
    few who get too drunk, party too hard, and do things they shouldn't, whereas the vast majority are wonderful
    young people.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Everything today is reported... not to the press but to one Gov't agency or another.

    We do have the ability to disseminate information much more quickly and widely than ever before... Arab Spring (summer, fall and winter, too) would never have been part of the daily news cycle even say in Cronkite's day. Is it the widespread reportage of these uprisings that foments more of the same?

    Is it the videos of "flash robs" that drive some to oneupsmanship? If so, then the rapid dissemination of crime information video and audio, could very well push the wheel over the edge...
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

  4. #48
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I think you will see that crime and violent crime is on it's way back up... in the next UCR... I could be wrong.
    The latest preliminary data, for 2010, showed continued decreases in crime. Even if there is an uptick, it doesn't answer my main point. If the country was going to heck in a hand basket, crime wouldn't fall through the floor for two decades.

    One other point I forgot to make (this isn't to oakchas, but for the whole topic)- Those pining for the good ole days must be fair with what they remember. You might think of something resembling Ozzie and Harriet. If you are black, you will probably remember things in that era differently. Same if you are gay. How about if you were a woman who did not want to raise kids or be limited to just raising kids? Your options were far fewer and societal norms far more aligned against you.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    I found this pinned to a bulletin board in one of my client's offices. I've read it (over) several times and it gets better with each reading. I think it's worth typing out for all of you to read so here goes:

    "Desiderata"

    Go placidly amid the noise and haste and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, they too have their story.

    Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

    Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

    Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.

    Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is perennial as the grass.

    Take kindly the counsel of years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

    You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

    Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace with your soul.

    With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.


    Found in old St. Paul's church, Baltimore; dated 1692.
    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin

    NRA Life

  6. #50
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    Crime statistics may be generally trending down, but "riddle me this Batman" why could you let your children out to play 20 years ago without worrying, but today you can't let them out of your sight? Thirty years ago you could walk the streets anywhere in the country but the worst of neighborhoods, try that today.
    Children are safer today than they have ever been. Check out the Free Range Kids website for more details. Kids aren't in more danger, what has changed is, again, PERCEPTION. In the "old days" we didn't hear about child abductions on a non-stop basis. We didn't have vultures like Nancy Grace keeping the lurid horrors front and center. When we see these reports, we personalize it so that it seems as if these incidents are the norm. It's much like how the media seizes on every accidental gun killing if a child is involved. It leaves the impression that kids are killing each other accidentally like crazy. But it's not true. The stats don't lie: our kids are safer from stranger abduction and violence than they were when we were kids.

    And I walk my neighborhood all the time. I wouldn't hesitate to walk it even in the middle of the night.

    Referring to crime statistics as, "generally trending down" greatly understates the trend. Violent crime has been in free fall. For example, gun homicides have dropped by roughly one third. That is astonishing.
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  7. #51
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Since you are only 23, you still lack the advantage of a long time on earth to observe human nature. In every generation, going back even to the Greeks, the elders decried the youth and the youth (in some societies) failed to venerate wisdom accumulated through time.

    I live in a community with vast numbers of University students and Junior College Students. There is always a tiny
    few who get too drunk, party too hard, and do things they shouldn't, whereas the vast majority are wonderful
    young people.
    Your observation of your university students is not a representation of the countries youth as a whole. What percentage of the youth goes to a university after college? Or for that matter even finish high school and/or college? Methinks it is not 100% or even close.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  8. #52
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    Not even once have I mentioned rappers, or teenagers, or baggy pants or kids on my lawn!
    That was a figurative line, I was just trying to bring a little levity to the discussion.

    I was, and am talking about serious crime, violent crime, being perpetrated at will on citizens of this country.
    These types of crimes are way way down. Much lower than when I was growing up. Violent crime of all types has been falling for two decades.

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    The latest preliminary data, for 2010, showed continued decreases in crime. Even if there is an uptick, it doesn't answer my main point. If the country was going to heck in a hand basket, crime wouldn't fall through the floor for two decades.

    One other point I forgot to make (this isn't to oakchas, but for the whole topic)- Those pining for the good ole days must be fair with what they remember. You might think of something resembling Ozzie and Harriet. If you are black, you will probably remember things in that era differently. Same if you are gay. How about if you were a woman who did not want to raise kids or be limited to just raising kids? Your options were far fewer and societal norms far more aligned against you.
    You are absolutely correct about the "good ol'" days, our memory is certainly subjective. Perhaps we pine for the days immediately following JFK and MLK murders, when guns started getting harder to acquire... or when permits to carry were virtually NOT issued, but were required...

    OTOH, you could go to your local High School with a .22 in the gun rack of a pickup or a shotty, or both... you and the guys might go out after school for a pheasant hunt or a squirrel hunt... you had to have your options available...

    You could leave your doors unlocked. on your car or your house, or both.

    Some of it is perception, some reality... History does repeat itself... and the pendulum swings...
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

    Socrates
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    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    I would agree with many that say the news and constant access to worldwide information is leading to the perception that society is spiraling out of control, but a lot of the signs do point that direction. I think part of the problem is parents and parenting, or the lack therof. And I think that problem boils down to a lack of self-control and respect. How are parents supposed to impart wisdom and restraint to their children when they show none themselves, or aren't even there?

    The other thing to look at is we are fighting evolution (not getting into the whole creation vs evolution theory, but actual micro-evolution of a species that is observable). The more educated and productive people in our society tend to have smaller families, leading to a decreasing representation in the population. There are a lot of possible reasons for this, a few being planning, self-control, understanding the time commitment to raise children properly, for a few. But when unmaried teenagers start having multiple children, boys go around knocking up all sorts of girls, mothers on welfare keep having more kids so they get paid more, etc... the least educated, least able to be productive, raise massive numbers of similar thinking children who are taught nothing but how to be the same way. The non-productive percentage of the population will continue to increase.

    The least usefull people have adapted to the environment that allows them to continue to do nothing usefull. This will continue until their numbers swell to the point where the rest of us can't support them anymore and society is upended. The number of prodctive members of society will fall until there is no longer enough production. Then there will be a reset where the people incapable of providing for themselves and contributing will die out, starve or be killed off. Lets just hope we can straighten things out before that happens, becauese I don't want to be around for the unrest that will happen when this occurs, and I wouldn't want my children or grandchildren etc. to have to go through that either.
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    Walk softly ...

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

    Socrates
    "Children are to be seen and not heard."

    Pop
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    "Children are to be seen and not heard."

    Pop
    LOL your pop must have known my pop.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    The last few generations lack "Home Training", meaning there is no one at there homes teaching them right from wrong.

    And if you don't know right from wrong, then that;s what you teach your kids... .and so on, and so on.....
    danfive555 likes this.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  15. #59
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    generally speaking, my generation (im 24) is infinitely superior to any previous generation of Americans.
    gay men and women walk down the street holding hands without fearing for their lives, people of different religions and races love each other and have solid friendships without stress or shame and women are treated far more seriously then ever before and have more control of their own body's and lives.
    all around an improvement.
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  16. #60
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward7 View Post
    generally speaking, my generation (im 24) is infinitely superior to any previous generation of Americans.
    gay men and women walk down the street holding hands without fearing for their lives, people of different religions and races love each other and have solid friendships without stress or shame and women are treated far more seriously then ever before and have more control of their own body's and lives.
    all around an improvement.
    We shall now start referring to you as "The Greatest Generation".

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