Feds say Vietnam vet not U.S. citizen

This is a discussion on Feds say Vietnam vet not U.S. citizen within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I'd say he took his test. Trial by incoming fire. This is one of those things where a written test shouldn't apply. Mr. Pschenica is ...

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Thread: Feds say Vietnam vet not U.S. citizen

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Feds say Vietnam vet not U.S. citizen

    I'd say he took his test. Trial by incoming fire. This is one of those things where a written test shouldn't apply. Mr. Pschenica is as American as they come as far as I'm concerned.
    Feds say Vietnam vet not U.S. citizen | Local News - KETV Home
    PLATTSMOUTH, Neb. -

    For the last 41 years, a man has been without a country even though he served in the United States military in Vietnam.
    Franz Pschenica, 65, has official government documents stating he's an American, but legally he's not, because he never took the written test everyone must take to become a citizen. It's a test he said he's already taken on the battlefield.

    Pschenica's story starts in Europe.

    "I was born in Austria," he said. "My parents were refugees in Austria for eight years. They lost their land at gunpoint in 1944. They had to get up and go."

    That brought Pschenica's family to the United States in 1952, where they settled in Plattsmouth.

    Pschenica grew up in Nebraska and graduated from Omaha South High School. He then decided to serve his country.

    "[I spent] six years and 19 days in the United States Army," he said.

    Pschenica fought in the jungles of Vietnam from 1969 to 1971

    Read more: Feds say Vietnam vet not U.S. citizen | Local News - KETV Home
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    PLATTSMOUTH, Neb. -

    Even though he had discharge papers from the U.S. Army saying he was a citizen, Pschenica was told that he was not.
    "I was told, 'We just can't swear you in, you've got to study this booklet and take a written test,'" he said.

    The test would have asked him his knowledge of the English language, American history and the government. He also would have to take an oath to support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies -- foreign and domestic.

    "I've already taken this oath twice," said Pschenica. "I've got an official document that says I'm a citizen. I said this is an official government document. Aren't we the same government here?"
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Sounds about right,A person that fought for the USA in her armed forces is told no way Jose,but on the other hand somebody with highly suspect background,has no idea of what being an American is,and forged documents gets a pass
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    All I can think to say is this is pitifull,and embarassing,as a vet and an American i'm ashamed.
    Spirit51, Bark'n and barstoolguru like this.

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    If our "Gubmit" would worry about the things that matter, and leave these "common sense" items alone, we would all be better off.
    Bark'n, MleeC and shooterX like this.
    Hiram25
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    I'd say he has earned it as well!
    "Don't start none, won't be none!"

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Is anyone surprised that the federal government would contradict itself? He has a document saying he is a citizen, but now they say he isn't...
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

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    OK, all you guys who want a papers please society, pay attention. This is what you get. There are people in FL right now
    who are US citizens who are being told they must prove they are citizens even though they have been registered voters for
    decades, and no, they aren't Cuban migrants or such. They were born here.

    If you have a papers please society a paper pusher can just say you don't have the right papers, or your papers don't look right,
    you need more proof, and you are screwed.

    My professor served in WWII. He had his discharge papers. He was born in IL or Indiana; I'm not sure which.
    His parents had been born in the US; who knows how many generations back.

    The building housing his original birth certificate burned down in the 1940s. In the 1980s he tried to get a passport-- big trouble.
    The only way he got saved was that they found an old bible someone noted his birth in. I don't know why that would
    be believed, but it was.

    The thing is, we have know nothing politicians who think a papers please society is the answer to
    non-existent problems and to problems with other more sensible solutions.

    You want to live in a totalitarian society, be my guest. Makes no difference to me. I'll be outa here.

    As for this being "typical government," and thankless, you don't know the half of it especially regarding
    foreign enlistees in the past. I think there's been improvement, but crazy stuff happens all the time.

    Now, with regard to this man. The rules which were in effect and probably still apply, are the foreigners who served during
    the Viet Nam era and who signed their enlistment papers on US SOIL (not an Embassy, not a military base,
    ( but physically here)
    were entitled to citizenship IF they filed the papers asking for it. No test was required. They only needed to push paper and say the oath. Either the newspapers have the story wrong, there is more to the story, or some idiot official has no idea what he was doing. Possible too is that a deadline for doing the things needed to obtain citizenship "automatically" was allowed to pass from ignorance.

    I believe there were deadlines, and in some cases I know people had to have re-enlisted on US soil if their original enlistment was entered into abroad (not this man's situation), and there was a cut off date
    for folks to be considered as having enlisted during the VN era. Service by itself counted for nothing if you didn't sign
    the papers in the right place by the right date.

    Of course no one in the military counseled anyone correctly, they were just happy to get a body, many people
    fell through the cracks. I know this because I spent many hours on the phone and on the road, and at INS, and
    talking to a Senators offices, and to the military attache at the White House, to get one man processed within the deadlines. He had to sign his re-enlistment papers on US soil, and the military wouldn't let him come back to the states to do it, as he could sign them where he was.

    Just remember something. Congress writes the crazy unjust rules and the courts make them worse. The
    folks who process have NO choice given a specific set of facts.

    They will find a way to fix this guys problem now that the whole world knows about it, and in fact he never legally had to take any written test, but every day there are
    thousands with one situation or another who don't get the publicity and get messed over.

    As there is more and more demand for a papers please society there will be many people who fall through the cracks,
    who lose rights they are fully entitled to have, and some will even be deported unjustly.

    We are on the wrong path and have been since we began demanding government ID to get on an airplane.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    The Cliif noted version of Hopyards post:

    The system sucks

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    The Cliif noted version of Hopyards post:

    The system sucks
    Yes, but the important message is be careful what you wish for. When you think the country's problems can be
    solved by demanding that everyone has papers and be able to show them, you open up the possibility of
    everything from mere accidental injustice to deliberate mischief and totalitarianism.

    Again, be careful what you wish for.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    I used to work for a guy who was fond of saying: "Some hills aren't worth dying on." Trying logic on a bureaucrat is one such hill. I would simply take the test and move on. Not that it matters, but this man would not only get my vote for being a citizen but my respect and thanks as well - with or without the test results.

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    I am lost??? he says he has a document that states he is a citizen. I guess that is what you get when you grow the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caertaker View Post
    I used to work for a guy who was fond of saying: "Some hills aren't worth dying on." Trying logic on a bureaucrat is one such hill. I would simply take the test and move on. Not that it matters, but this man would not only get my vote for being a citizen but my respect and thanks as well - with or without the test results.
    Generally you are right, and it might apply well here, but the man demanding the test is clearly incorrect. testing
    was not (and probably is not) a legal requirement for naturalization of foreign nationals who served during the Viet Nam
    War and who signed enlistment papers on US Soil. In fact, there was no written test in the 1970s. The test when needed,
    was administered orally, and could be as simple as asking the applicant to write a simple sentece: e.g., "I am a working mother."
    Civics could be tested as quickly as asking someone a single question about basic rights.

    Standardized written tests for citizenship are relatively recent things-- but in any case should not be applied
    retroactively to this man's situation; if it is what was stated in the newspaper article.

    Of course he has been living here illegally all these years; he would have known he isn't a citizen if he had a green card-- something his military service back then did not necessarily entitle him to.

    So for all you posters who repeatedly say, "what part of illegal don't you understand," do you really want to deport this guy? Toss him in jail?
    Last edited by Hopyard; May 30th, 2012 at 03:26 PM.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBuckwheat View Post
    I am lost??? he says he has a document that states he is a citizen. I guess that is what you get when you grow the government.
    Sounds like someone just checked a wrong box on some discharge papers. Or, as is not uncommon, he and the folks who
    signed the papers didn't realize that his service by itself did not make him a citizen, and hence they just assumed he was
    one.

    Its complicated stuff made more complicated by inadequate coordination between the military and INS; which both have
    opposite jobs. One wants bodies in; the other wants bodies kept out.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    it just goes to show you how vets are treated in this country.

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    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    it just goes to show you how vets are treated in this country.
    It would have been nice if someone in a position of authority had gotten wind of this and quietly intervined but I think you're right: we don't give our veterans the credit, respect and thanks they deserve.

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