Man Sues Range Over Ladies' Day - Page 4

Man Sues Range Over Ladies' Day

This is a discussion on Man Sues Range Over Ladies' Day within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Yoda Ladies night free admittance, ladies night free or reduced drinks, etc. There are lots of examples of businesses offering a different ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Ladies night free admittance, ladies night free or reduced drinks, etc. There are lots of examples of businesses offering a different "deal" for ladies, there should be some precedents for previous suits. And hey, what about senior citizen discounts? Free drinks at Whataburger..

    "Hey I didn't get a winning lottery ticket, I was discriminated against!"
    "Hey my kid only had to pay $12 for a ticket to the ball game, why am I being discriminated against?"


    I do not think it is discrimination to offer something to one type, but it IS discrimination to deny something to only one type.
    There is precedent in Maryland. In 1995 an administrative law judge banned this sort of thing after a complaint was file with the Human Rights Commission over ladies night at a bar.
    Regarding the kids ticket and the senior discounts, like I posted before, when you were a kid you could pay kids admission. When you become a senior you can get your senior discount.
    Is it discrimination to only pay white males $10 per hour for the same work you pay everyone else $8 per hour for?
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  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    I think the key here that both sides have not mentioned, is that he was not treated any differently than the average public. He was charged regular admission, was not denied access or oportunity to use the business. He was not descriminated against or impacted in any way. He is whining because he didn't get the same discount that the ladies did.

    It is a minor distinction, but I believe important. If he were to be charged more than the standard rate, then he might have a legitimate case.
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  3. #48
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    There is precedent in Maryland. In 1995 an administrative law judge banned this sort of thing after a complaint was file with the Human Rights Commission over ladies night at a bar.
    I could not find the 1995 decision but I did find one, Peppin v. Woodside, 67 Md. App. 39 (1986), from years previous. The decision held "the Montgomery County Human Relations Commission, based upon the findings by the Panel on Public Accommodations, properly concluded that Skirt and Gown Night amounted to unlawful sex-based discrimination within the meaning of § 27-9 of the Montgomery County Human Relations Act." The Skirt and Gown Night was the business owner's response to having the Ladies' Night challenged.

    The decision is located at PEPPIN v. WOODSIDE DELICATESSEN*-*April 2, 1986.

    It is important to note that this was at the County level and, therefore, would not apply statewide. In the instant matter the issue is whether he violated the Prince George's County's statute which appears to have been the conclusion of the Prince George's County Human Relations Commission. Interestingly there is no mention of whether the Human Rights Commission actually found that the business was violating the county's law and, if so, had they made a determination and issued an order. If they had the commission, not just the aggrieved, could seek to have the Circuit Court enforce compliance. I'm guessing this did not occur since it would make no sense to file a civil suit parallel to the enforcement action of the Human Rights Commission.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Regarding the kids ticket and the senior discounts, like I posted before, when you were a kid you could pay kids admission. When you become a senior you can get your senior discount.
    Doesn't gender reassignment surgery make this distinction irrelevant since at some time any of us *could* become the other gender and thus qualify for the discounts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Is it discrimination to only pay white males $10 per hour for the same work you pay everyone else $8 per hour for?
    Yes, if you can prove it is based upon the person being a white male. This is covered by Equal Pay Act of 1963 provided that the jobs are substantially equal (they need not be identical even). It is difficult to prove as the factors include skill, effort, responsibility and working conditions and the unequal pay must occur within the same physical space (establishment).

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    I could not find the 1995 decision but I did find one, Peppin v. Woodside, 67 Md. App. 39 (1986), from years previous. The decision held "the Montgomery County Human Relations Commission, based upon the findings by the Panel on Public Accommodations, properly concluded that Skirt and Gown Night amounted to unlawful sex-based discrimination within the meaning of § 27-9 of the Montgomery County Human Relations Act." The Skirt and Gown Night was the business owner's response to having the Ladies' Night challenged.

    The decision is located at PEPPIN v. WOODSIDE DELICATESSEN*-*April 2, 1986.

    It is important to note that this was at the County level and, therefore, would not apply statewide. In the instant matter the issue is whether he violated the Prince George's County's statute which appears to have been the conclusion of the Prince George's County Human Relations Commission. Interestingly there is no mention of whether the Human Rights Commission actually found that the business was violating the county's law and, if so, had they made a determination and issued an order. If they had the commission, not just the aggrieved, could seek to have the Circuit Court enforce compliance. I'm guessing this did not occur since it would make no sense to file a civil suit parallel to the enforcement action of the Human Rights Commission.
    The 1995 case involved a Baltimore bar named Tully's

    Doesn't gender reassignment surgery make this distinction irrelevant since at some time any of us *could* become the other gender and thus qualify for the discounts?
    And you don't think any court in this country would call undergoing surgery an undue burden?


    Yes, if you can prove it is based upon the person being a white male. This is covered by Equal Pay Act of 1963 provided that the jobs are substantially equal (they need not be identical even). It is difficult to prove as the factors include skill, effort, responsibility and working conditions and the unequal pay must occur within the same physical space (establishment).
    But then with skin bleaching and the above referenced gender reassignment surgery that would be a non issue wouldn't it?
    ( A side note here, If anyone finds themselves in the Silver Spring Maryland area I do recommend the Woodside Deli for lunch.)
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  5. #50
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    And you don't think any court in this country would call undergoing surgery an undue burden?
    The burden, it could be argued, would be similar to having join the military to avail oneself of a discount :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    But then with skin bleaching and the above referenced gender reassignment surgery that would be a non issue wouldn't it?
    Exactly. Problem solved.

    -----------------------------

    Interesting. Attorney Jimmy Bell seems to have found a nice little niche:

    A woman is suing a strip club for sex discrimination because she said the bar charges women twice as much as men to enter the bar.

    An attorney for Ericka Wiggs said she and her husband went to The Mile High Club in Clinton in February to wind down from a long work week, but they didn't stay long because Wiggs was so angry over the nude dance club's policy to charge men a $10 cover charge and women $20.

    "She was [upset]," said her attorney Jimmy A. Bell. "She couldn't do anything else that night."

    Woman sues strip club for charging women more | WashingtonExaminer.com

    The Tully's case, in part, can be found at Duane Loverde | Ladies night bottled up - Baltimore Sun

    Summary of that case:

    On July 16, 1992, James Schwanebeck went to Tully's Restaurant in Baltimore County and was charged full price for his drink while women paid half-price.

    He filed a complaint with the Maryland Commission on Human Relations alleging sex discrimination. An administrative law judge agreed, saying Tully's ladies night violated Maryland's anti-discrimination code.

    The 1995 ruling was case-specific. Tully's was ordered to cancel its ladies night promotion and, among other penalties, told to refund Schwanebeck $4.50 (plus interest), according to the Sept. 20, 1995, ruling. Schwanebeck said he never saw the $4.50 refund, but he didn't go looking for it, either.

    James Schwanebeck can feel proud of himself for crying about a ladies night promotion.

    Similar cases by Jimmy Bell:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/rel...ail_salon.html

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Well here is a hypothetical twist for your amusement......
    The federal government and many private sector employers offer base salary plus "locality pay" adjustments based on the local cost of living.
    Since women can take advantage of "ladies night" specials at ranges, bars, and restaurants would it be discrimination to pay male employees more since they can not get these discounts? Do men not have a gender based higher cost of living?
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Well here is a hypothetical twist for your amusement......
    The federal government and many private sector employers offer base salary plus "locality pay" adjustments based on the local cost of living.
    Since women can take advantage of "ladies night" specials at ranges, bars, and restaurants would it be discrimination to pay male employees more since they can not get these discounts? Do men not have a gender based higher cost of living?
    No because the employers would be assuming that their employees are taking advantage of such offers.

  8. #53
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    "The "kids eat free" is not discrimination because at one time every adult was a kid. At one point in your life, no matter who you are, you could have taken them up on that offer. That is not the case with "ladie's day".
    That's not exactly true either, in this age of medical miracles."

    Maybe he can get a discount on the surgery since there is obviously nothing to take off anyway....
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  9. #54
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    No because the employers would be assuming that their employees are taking advantage of such offers.
    But they are assuming their employees will get comparable housing (sq ft etc) in the different markets. They are assuming that they will drive their vehicles and pay for parking. Locality pay is already based on several assumptions.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Yup. Getting the guys out of their hair for an afternoon ain't a bad thing. Pursuing a comfort zone without the high-testosterone competitive aspects ain't a bad thing. Nor is being out-shot 90% of them once they get their "running" legs, and very often quite a bit sooner. Amen, to all of it.
    Totaly agree. Most women I see at my range have some guy all up on them correcting every single little move. I actully find it refreshing, with respect to my wife, to see women shooting on thier own or with oher women. They actually offer ladies only hand gun classes, taught by a female instructor. I give them credit where its due.

    As for this guy suing his range... really? I got nothing.
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  11. #56
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    But they are assuming their employees will get comparable housing (sq ft etc) in the different markets. They are assuming that they will drive their vehicles and pay for parking. Locality pay is already based on several assumptions.
    I would argue, and it may really be semantics, that they are working off a requirement (vs an assumption) that housing be of a certain type and size but the actual type, size, and price paid is an entirely different issue altogether. General assumptions are one thing, specific ones as to which places one might shop and secure services is quite another. We could play this game all day long my friend.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    So if the argument is that they are not denying something to anyone would you all say it would not be discriminatory for a bank to offer 0% interest loans only to men who came in and applied on Mondays?
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  13. #58
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    Asian night .... all Asians shoot for free.... all non-Asians pay $15 . Is that OK ? Businesses have 'target groups' related to their business that they may try to draw into their business, but ... does this apply here ? I don't have the answer.

    but.... if people really want absolutely NO discrimination ..... then the groups most often doing the complaining, are more likely to be the losers. At what point is the Black Atty's Association, or the Women's only clubs, not OK ? Go out and start a club for white male attorneys ONLY, and you'll find out that's not ok when you are sued by every group there is out there.

    For me, I say "go for it" .... absolutely NO discrimination of any kind for any group ... period. I'll have fun sitting back and watch who really does the whining about it...... when they get exactly what they want and lose that "privileged" entitled status they seem to enjoy so much.

    I'm all for it.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So if the argument is that they are not denying something to anyone would you all say it would not be discriminatory for a bank to offer 0% interest loans only to men who came in and applied on Mondays?
    Why would it be discriminatory, when I could just go in on Tuesday. If it's discriminating to anyone/thing, it would be discriminatory to Monday, and who cares what Monday thinks?
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  15. #60
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    What a sack of .......... he needs to turn in his man card.


    oh yeah ...........................

    Special Police in MD are basicly Security Guards with Arrest Authority. They have all the statutory arrest authority over misdermeanor and feloney offences that occur in their presence however rheir authority is limited to the private property that they patrol and are asigned too. They do not have any off duty or off property police authority and can not carry off duty unless their handgun permit allows them too ( Yes they must have a seperate handgun permit to carry)
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