Attackers stapled his lips shut...not a hate crime?

This is a discussion on Attackers stapled his lips shut...not a hate crime? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Harryball I think you misunderstood what I was saying. A lot of times the kids coming back to school like to play ...

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Thread: Attackers stapled his lips shut...not a hate crime?

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I think you misunderstood what I was saying. A lot of times the kids coming back to school like to play stupid games. They get drunk and all sorts of crap happens. We have had some weird ones over the years. The community itself is very friendly to the jewish people. I have first hand info of these things, I work for the city....
    Harry: Cities, and East Lansing Police Department is no different, prefer to do anything they can to avoid putting a "hate crime" label on a particular act. It is in their own self-interest to avoid the label if at all possible. While all the facts are not known at this time it does not sound like some stupid game. It appears to be exactly what the young victim says it was: a hate crime. Just because a community is generally friendly doesn't mean the community cannot experience a hate crime. In fact, in this case the alleged perpetrator whose name is not yet know to the public is not even from East Lansing.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Harry: Cities, and East Lansing Police Department is no different, prefer to do anything they can to avoid putting a "hate crime" label on a particular act. It is in their own self-interest to avoid the label if at all possible. While all the facts are not known at this time it does not sound like some stupid game. It appears to be exactly what the young victim says it was: a hate crime. Just because a community is generally friendly doesn't mean the community cannot experience a hate crime. In fact, in this case the alleged perpetrator whose name is not yet know to the public is not even from East Lansing.
    You talk of the ELPD like you know them. I have a very personal relationship with this dept. You can speculate all you want. The dept will do what they have to, to not only solve the crime, but bring the people responsible to justice. Period. So please speak of what you know, not what you think you know.

    BTW, East Lansing is the Home of MSU (Michigan State University) They have almost 50,000 students that just piled into town. Most of the kids are not from East Lansing. We are a campus town...Thats why I was making reference to parties and the stupid things that come out of them.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You talk of the ELPD like you know them. I have a very personal relationship with this dept. You can speculate all you want. The dept will do what they have to, to not only solve the crime, but bring the people responsible to justice. Period. So please speak of what you know, not what you think you know.

    BTW, East Lansing is the Home of MSU (Michigan State University) They have almost 50,000 students that just piled into town. Most of the kids are not from East Lansing. We are a campus town...Thats why I was making reference to parties and the stupid things that come out of them.
    I've been to East Lansing plenty of times. Thanks for the geography and town information.

    Your personal friendships in knowing members of the East Lansing Police Department, and being employed by the city of East Lansing, could be impacting your viewpoint just a tad. Your opinions are speculation no less than mine are according to you.

    I'll speak of what I know: Governments in general typically avoid calling something a hate crime until it absolutely must be classified as such. That's politics in my view it is naive to think otherwise.

  5. #19
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    I wouldn't be so quick to pass judgement yet. There have been plenty of instances where people set up "hate crimes" or just scream "hate crime" to get revenge and/or glean all the attention from it. Already, it appears that the police are starting to see two sides to this story, 1., the victim claims that no one helped him, 2. it has come to their attention that others did indeed rush to him and even take him to the hospital. I'll be waiting to see if any more facts come out about this before coming to a conclusion.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    I've been to East Lansing plenty of times. Thanks for the geography and town information.

    Your personal friendships in knowing members of the East Lansing Police Department, and being employed by the city of East Lansing, could be impacting your viewpoint just a tad. Your opinions are speculation no less than mine are according to you.

    I'll speak of what I know: Governments in general typically avoid calling something a hate crime until it absolutely must be classified as such. That's politics in my view it is naive to think otherwise.
    Not quite speculation......My opinions have more facts than you know...
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  7. #21
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    So called "hate crime" punishments are simple wrong. One should be charged on what was done and not why it was done. As much as everyone would like to see America as one big "fuzzie feelie" place that isn't ever going to happen. Only place you can get Utopia is in the movies.

    All laws that deal with what is considered crime have sentencing guidelines and that is all that should be imposed upon someone. Murder is murder and it should matter not why a person did it when charged and sentenced.
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    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Not quite speculation......My opinions have more facts than you know...
    This isn't poker and you chose to chime in. Either share what you know or accept that others may question your motivation in defending the ELPD and local government. Otherwise I'll refrain from playing the fact shell game.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    So called "hate crime" punishments are simple wrong. One should be charged on what was done and not why it was done. As much as everyone would like to see America as one big "fuzzie feelie" place that isn't ever going to happen. Only place you can get Utopia is in the movies.

    All laws that deal with what is considered crime have sentencing guidelines and that is all that should be imposed upon someone. Murder is murder and it should matter not why a person did it when charged and sentenced.
    I say amen, even if we have crossed the line into pure political debate. If someone murders someone for his shoes or because he hates the guy's belief shouldn't matter at all in the punishment or zeal of the prosecution.
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    I don't think there should be a category of hate crime... it is a slippery slope, particularly in a trial over SD... look at the Zimmerman case, and how the term "hate crime" is being tossed around.

    They committed assault, among other crimes, and should be tried for that.
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  12. #26
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    He apparently was beaten unconscious also. If he had a gun would he be justified in using it or are using guns considered not playing fair during college party games?
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    This isn't poker and you chose to chime in. Either share what you know or accept that others may question your motivation in defending the ELPD and local government. Otherwise I'll refrain from playing the fact shell game.
    The investigation is still on going. I chose to chime in because its in my back yard, Im not sure what your excuse is..I raise you 5
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    I say amen, even if we have crossed the line into pure political debate. If someone murders someone for his shoes or because he hates the guy's belief shouldn't matter at all in the punishment or zeal of the prosecution.
    The crime of "murder" is one defined by intent. Killing someone due to illegal activity is usually "man-slaughter". Man-slaughter is upgraded to murder if it can be proven that the person had a specific mindset, the intent, to murder (or to cause specific harms).

    A hate-crime is upgraded (much like the man-slaughter charge can be upgraded) because the perp intended to terrorise a community in addition to causing the specific harms they did. The intent, in both cases is an aggravating factor.
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  15. #29
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    The investigation is still on going. I chose to chime in because its in my back yard, Im not sure what your excuse is..I raise you 5
    I chose to chime in because it occurred in the country to which I have written a blank check for my life to preserve the principles of the United States Constitution, the Bille of Rights, and other amendments there unto. I raise you 5,000.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    The crime of "murder" is one defined by intent. Killing someone due to illegal activity is usually "man-slaughter". Man-slaughter is upgraded to murder if it can be proven that the person had a specific mindset, the intent, to murder (or to cause specific harms).

    A hate-crime is upgraded (much like the man-slaughter charge can be upgraded) because the perp intended to terrorise a community in addition to causing the specific harms they did. The intent, in both cases is an aggravating factor.
    Yeah, thanks. I wasn't talking about manslaughter and I fully understood the definition of "murder" when I wrote that. I don't think a charge should be "upgraded" because of the motive behind it. A murder committed in order to take someone's possessions or a murder committed because you don't like someone's beliefs, or skin color, or sexual preference shouldn't be treated differently by the justice system.
    Last edited by Brad426; August 29th, 2012 at 08:21 PM.
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