If we could carry on a plane...

This is a discussion on If we could carry on a plane... within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Please excuse my judgemental attitude, but on my trips to the range I notice a LOT of...chuckleheads. No training, no experience, no guidance, no study, ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Please excuse my judgemental attitude, but on my trips to the range I notice a LOT of...chuckleheads. No training, no experience, no guidance, no study, no discipline, no technique, no common-sense, and only enough safety to prevent them from being asked to leave. I do not wish to be next to them on the firing line. I prefer them to be shooting in another zip code. And I AM NOT interested in being restricted to ultimate confines of an airplane fuselage when they decide to play Bruce Willis. I'm all in for 2nd Amendment rights, but that's like smoking a cigar...in an oxygen tent.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionracas View Post
    I agree with you 100% on that pain but its still way better than the alternative. Im sure I wouldnt need to convince you of that though.
    I am sure that it hurts less than a sliced jugular vein or dying in a plane crash.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    I am sure that it hurts less than a sliced jugular vein or dying in a plane crash.
    I'm not going to argue semantics. Any severe ear pain is obviously preferable to death. But as far as it "hurting less" than your examples, I'm not so sure.

    I decided some time ago that I have (thankfully) already experienced more pain than I HOPE it will take to...kill me.
    phreddy likes this.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWBracelets View Post
    I'm not saying that by stepping onto an airplane makes you a highly trained tactical specialist either. All I'm saying is that the lawfully armed citizen who carries on the ground does not become a reckless maniac in the air.

    Look, we are all fine with other people carrying anywhere and everywhere we go. Sure there is some risk that the other "good guy" has little to no training, but he/she is not restricted from carrying because of that. What makes a plane any different?
    We are all not fine with people carrying anywhere and everywhere we go. We do not want more government infringement on 2A rights but we also recognize that many folks are a walking hazard with a firearm and we want to make the choice as business or property owners whether they can carry firearms in privately owned establishments.

    And you fail to recognize the difference in what can happen on an aircraft if there is an ND/AD vs on the ground. An AD/ND can take out an engine, can cause a decompression, a host of other things besides making it easieer for a BG to get one on board.

    The current rules are good and like I said before, it is much easier and a better tacticall solution to tackle the BG (s) than it is to get into a gunfight at 30K feet.

    For all the folks that think they practice realisticaly: do you practice on a moving airplane that is in even mild turblelence?
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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  6. #35
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post

    Nor does it suddenly transform them into someone who has the proper training to engage a target in a confined space, on a possibly unstable aircraft, in a crowded enviroment. They will be the same person who bought their gun, applied and received their permit with posssibly no training required and who has not shot their firearm since they got it the year before.
    I think I will take my chances on a hijack and my ability to defend myself than Bob the mall ninja with his Kel Tec firing from the back row, over the drink cart, past the young couple in 46 J trying to hit the guy threatening to take over the plane.
    Not always Tacman...

    Let's look at both sides of the coin here.

    What if that person is you, or another who has had some amount of training in close range small arms combat?

    For the detractors of in-flight carry I would like to know...

    And maybe here is another thread that should spawn from this discussion; should there be levels of CCW permits?

    I, for one, am more of a 2nd amendment means "shall not be infringed"...

    But I also acknowledge the fact that good 'ol #2 would have been worded differently if the Founders had known how technology would grow.

    That disclaimer out of the way, I would sign up for additional required training to be able to carry in places that are, as of now, off-limits to me.

    Would that be acceptible???

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  7. #36
    Member Array kmf0925's Avatar
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    I don't see anything wrong with legally armed citizens carrying on airplanes. I don't see a difference between that and walking
    down the street armed. Although, I don't see "airplane" carry legal anytime soon. However, I MOST DEFINITELY think pilots and
    flight crew should be very well trained in firearms and they should have weapons in the cockpit.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmf0925 View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with legally armed citizens carrying on airplanes. I don't see a difference between that and walking
    down the street armed. Although, I don't see "airplane" carry legal anytime soon. However, I MOST DEFINITELY think pilots and
    flight crew should be very well trained in firearms and they should have weapons in the cockpit.
    And you do not see any downsides?
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    And you do not see any downsides?
    Aren't there always?

    Airplanes are your personal line of demarcation I guess...

    Correct me if not.

    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    For everyone that thinks it is a good idea to let folks stay armed on an airplane let me just say this:
    It is not hard for someone to get a CCP. So, with very little planning, a group of 10 or 20 BG's could be on board a plane and just casually show their CCP and have their guns.
    Now, let us say that 2-5 of them get up and start shooting people or holes in the plane. What happens next? Of course every cowboy on board stands up and starts shooting, not knowing of course who is who since they might have been reading a magazine at the time in row 46.

    So, the shooting starts, (you don't need big holes, but enough small ones in the right spots can do world of hurt. Parts flying into the engines ect...(or did nobody think of that when they said no big deal, only small things will fly out the window) Fuels tanks, hydraulics, the pilots.

    OK, now that the chaos has started, the other BG's (sleepers) start shooting and since they know who the BG's are they start shooting up the rest of the plane.

    Yeah, I am sure no terrorist would ever figure out that plan.

    You sure you want to make it easy to carry on board a plane?

    The passengers are better off charging the BG's who would have very little in the way of firearms under the current rules. And as far as taking a guy out with a bomb....if they got that far I would think they are bright enough to have a suicide switch.
    There you go, being logical.

    I agree. A coordinated attack from well-armed & trained terrorists acting as legal cc'ers, would own the plane in short order and quickly put down any cowboys.
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  11. #40
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    I'm fine with not allowing firearms to be carried on planes. If I'm on a street, I can try to get away from the "action" if a shootout starts up or a BG starts unloading on innocents. I can take cover or try to gain a tactical advantage. A bus can be stopped quickly without killing everyone on-board. A plane cannot. It is a flying prison where you cannot escape while in the air. There is no room for taking cover. There is no way to gain a tactical advantage over a BG. You can either take out your gun and shoot (and likely hit any of the dozens of people in front, behind, or beside you), or sit back and pray you don't get hit.

    If there were a reasonable chance of being able to stop a threat without becoming the threat yourself (meaning, hitting an untold number of innocents in a cramped, confined space), then perhaps I would be for it. But, as it is, I'd rather firearms be removed from being carried on flights. I might sing a different tune if I see some better arguments for carrying on-board, though.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    I'm fine with not allowing firearms to be carried on planes. If I'm on a street, I can try to get away from the "action" if a shootout starts up or a BG starts unloading on innocents. I can take cover or try to gain a tactical advantage. A bus can be stopped quickly without killing everyone on-board. A plane cannot. It is a flying prison where you cannot escape while in the air. There is no room for taking cover. There is no way to gain a tactical advantage over a BG. You can either take out your gun and shoot (and likely hit any of the dozens of people in front, behind, or beside you), or sit back and pray you don't get hit.

    If there were a reasonable chance of being able to stop a threat without becoming the threat yourself (meaning, hitting an untold number of innocents in a cramped, confined space), then perhaps I would be for it. But, as it is, I'd rather firearms be removed from being carried on flights. I might sing a different tune if I see some better arguments for carrying on-board, though.
    Just trying to solidify my thoughts on this issue myself...

    Being 9/11 and all.

    My thoughts start to stray into the "is a stray round ever acceptible" thread.

    Sometimes it may be; but that is never known because once you stop the threat(s) whatever MAY have happened beyond that is
    pure spectulation I guess.

    Tough one to pin down for me.

    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    I really don't want to be in a tightly confined space from which there is no escape when some bright-eyed idiot goes ballistic.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    So Suntzu you are going to charge the BGs with a cordinated attack. Who is going with you. That old lady sittng beside you or the over weight guy next to the window. Have you ever tried to get up and out of a seat in a hurry. Much less orginaze an atttack. I think you are dreaming my friend. Hand gun rounds are not going to bring that plane down.
    I belive everyone boarding a plane is issued a revolver loaded with frangible ammo.. That way everybody knows not to start trouble. Sure beats being slaughtered.
    Have at me friend.
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  15. #44
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmacque View Post
    I really don't want to be in a tightly confined space from which there is no escape when some bright-eyed idiot goes ballistic.
    I really don't want to be anywhere when some bright-eyed idiot goes ballistic...

    Unarmed.

    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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  16. #45
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    I can run away on the street. I can disappear into a crowd. I can find concealment & cover in a restaurant. Distance is my dearest friend to put between me & bad-guys or trigger-happy cowboys. Airplanes make that all that entirely too difficult. I agree with y'all, ANY gun-free zone make me as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. And if I knew the skill, mindset & tactics of everyone who is armed, I'd be all in. But I don't & I can't. When push comes to shove and gunfire erupts, how can I (or you) know the difference between a legally armed citizen, an Air Marshall or...another terrorist? Gunfire is absolute chaos. Airplanes are cigar tubes with wings. Deafening explosions, utter confusion, screaming innocents & blinding flashes are best avoided under ALL circumstances, but certainly in...a cigar tube!
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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