Tax Policy thread

Tax Policy thread

This is a discussion on Tax Policy thread within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg I'm not in favor of higher taxes. I already give almost half my paycheck to the government as it is. We ...

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    Tax Policy thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    I'm not in favor of higher taxes. I already give almost half my paycheck to the government as it is. We need to cut entitlement programs.
    Okay how about GE who in 2009 generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion. We (the US taxpayer) paid GE $1.1 billion dollars.

    Our fedearl gas tax (18.4 cents a gallon) that is suppose to pay for US highways doesn't even cover the maintinance costs of the Interstate system, yet we are building more, but are not willing to pay for maintaining what we already have.

    We as a nation like to complain about spending but are not even aware of what all our taxes pay for. Healthcare in our country is out of control and needs to be reformed massively, it is the biggest driver of debt (both government and personal) in this country. Both Ryan and Obama are trying to tackle it by cutting medicare payments and therefore medical payments in genearl.

    I want more accountibility in Congress about where our tax dollars are spent, but we as a people are going to have to suck it up and pay our share and that will be paying more in taxes and receiveing less services. Unfortantly there is no other way
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    pgrass: how does your comment about GE apply to what I said? I still have almost half of my pay check taken from me regardless of what GE does. GE and other companies like them are able to get away with paying lower tax rates because of the loop holes in the tax code that were put in place to give politicians additional power. A less complicated tax structure could actually increase tax revenues and allow for lower tax rates at the same time (more people paying taxes).

    The concept works for the government just like it works for me: I have money coming in and money going out. If I have more money going out than I have coming in, I can either increase the money coming in (a second job) or decrease the money going out (cancel my cable subscription). My first reaction to a situation like that is to look at what I can cut first, before going and looking for another job. The government does the opposite. If they even care, they look to get more money rather than cut spending.

    The federal government spends about 2% of its budget on roads. I'm pretty sure they can look at the other 98% of their budget before complaining about taxes for roads.
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    Gdawg, you mentioned not wanting to pay more taxes that you pay enough. I just wanted to point out that our tax system is slanted with deductions and loopholes that let's large corporations (and people who make money from money ie stocks and investments) do not pay the same rate that you do. We cannot just say lets "not raise taxes", some taxes need to be raised. I am for a flat tax rate with no deductions and all income is counted the same (no different rates for capital gains, payroll, earned income etc...)

    I agree that there is a lot the we can trim out of the budget, and we need to trim about $10 of expenses for every $1 of increase in revenue. But that means hard work, compromise and giving up somethings. The first two is something that our current Congress seems to be unable to do and the latter one is something that many Americans seem unwilling to even consider.

    If you want to have some fun fixing the debt try this game Budget Simulator | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
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    Imagine standing in the check out line at Walmart and you pay 7% sales tax on your purchase. Then Warren Buffet who is next in line steps up to the cash register and is charged only 2% sales tax because someone in Government decided since he made SO much more money than you he is entitled to pay a lesser tax rate. Then a representative from GE steps up to pay for supplies at the office and they pay NO tax at all. I don't know about you but I wouldn't think that's fair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Imagine standing in the check out line at Walmart and you pay 7% sales tax on your purchase. Then Warren Buffet who is next in line steps up to the cash register and is charged only 2% sales tax because someone in Government decided since he made SO much more money than you he is entitled to pay a lesser tax rate. Then a representative from GE steps up to pay for supplies at the office and they pay NO tax at all. I don't know about you but I wouldn't think that's fair.
    Invalid comparison. Sales taxes are taxes on consumption, and are regressive in fact. You can't compare the progressivity of an income tax structure with the regressivity of a sales or consumption tax.


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    I think it's clear that we need to both reduce spending and fix the tax system we have in place right now. I'm also in favor of a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage. No one should get a free pass and no one should be punished for being more financially successful.
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    It's a very valid conceptual comparison. Even Warren Buffet himself says it's unfair that he pays tax at less than half the tax rate as his house keeper. A flat tax would correct either one on these examples.
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    Okay enough tax policy talk, I'm the one who derailed this thread....so let's get it back on the rails
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    It's a very valid conceptual comparison. Even Warren Buffet himself says it's unfair that he pays tax at less than half the tax rate as his house keeper. A flat tax would correct either one on these examples.
    Warren Buffet is completely and intentionally dishonest when he makes statements like that. He knows full well, his money doesn't come from an income the way his housekeeper earns money and pays taxes.

    His money comes primarily through investment vehicles and that is the reason he is taxed through a different tax vehicle and at a different tax rate. He is taxed through the capital gains tax and it is at a lower rate because his money has already been taxed once at the capital investment for the risk he's taking. Then he is taxed again on the money generated from that investment. He is essentially taxed twice. If that investment is a loss and he doesn't make any, he's already been taxed once before.

    And even though the cap gains tax he pays may be at a lower rate than the federal income tax his house keeper may be paying. He's already been taxed twice, where his housekeeper hasn't been. And the revenue he pays into the treasury is insanely greater than if he were to pay a straight income tax.

    Trust me, he knows the tax code inside out, and is only touting that line to try and make Romney look like he's doing something dishonest or unfair. And he's doing that because he's a liberal and not a conservative. Typically, he's a hypocrite.

    Btw... It was his secretary he was comparing taxes with. His housekeeper probably doesn't pay any income tax because she doesn't earn enough money to be taxed, along with the 45% of everyone else who doesn't pay a federal income tax.
    Last edited by Bark'n; September 25th, 2012 at 06:50 PM. Reason: typo
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    Okay since we seem to be stuck on taxes

    A capital gain is the difference between the price received from selling an asset and the price paid for it. When you sell an item that you bought (stocks, land, cattle etc...) you only pay tax on the difference between the buying and selling price. So if you bought a stamp for $10 and sold it for $15 you would pay capital gains on $5. You deduct the intial price (becasue you have already paid taxes on it) from the selling price and that is what you use to figure capital gains.

    This is treated differently from income tax to encourage investment and grow the economy, but it still is untaxed income (until you pay your capital gains tax on it). I have read many papers talking about rather capital gains actually spur economic growth or not, and I am still undecided. I just believe that it should be treated as income and taxed as income.

    Captial gains is an easy tax to avoid if you are selling a personal item (ie a gun, silver/gold coins, etc...) and is not claimed be most people who are not of the rentier class.
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    Tax Policy thread

    Okay this thread is for a discussion of tax policy. As always keep it civil and let's educate each other, I know there are things I don't understand about our tax system.


    For the record I am for a flat tax, and if 10% was good enough for Jesus than it should be good enough for Uncle Sam
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    Here's the argument against a flat tax:
    One makes $10,000 a year, pays $1000 in taxes, has $9000 to make it through the year.
    Another makes $1,000,000, pays $100,000, has $900,000 to make it through the year.

    Who can best afford the flate rate? I'm more inclined toward a flat-rate sales tax in lieu of an income tax because rich people spend a lot more on frivolous (and non-frivolous) stuff than the poor. Regardless of which tax is in effect, far too many will take advantage of some loophole or exemption.

    Food and medicines should be tax free, alcohol and tobacco can be taxed into extinction IMO. Firearms and ammo (naturally) are excluded from the sales tax.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Warren Buffet is completely and intentionally dishonest when he makes statements like that. He knows full well, his money doesn't come from an income the way his housekeeper earns money and pays taxes.

    His money comes primarily through investment vehicles and that is the reason he is taxed through a different tax vehicle and at a different tax rate. He is taxed through the capital gains tax and it is at a lower rate because his money has already been taxed once at the capital investment for the risk he's taking. Then he is taxed again on the money generated from that investment. He is essentially taxed twice. If that investment is a loss and he doesn't make any, he's already been taxed once before.

    And even though the cap gains tax he pays may be at a lower rate than the federal income tax his house keeper may be paying. He's already been taxed twice, where his housekeeper hasn't been. And the revenue he pays into the treasury is insanely greater than if he were to pay a straight income tax.

    Trust me, he knows the tax code inside out, and is only touting that line to tray and make Romney look like he's doing something dishonest or unfair. And he's doing that because he's a liberal and not a conservative. Typically, he's a hypocrite.
    Wrong. Warren Buffet said this back in 2007. Nothing used against Romney.

    He is one of the few honest ones out there who is actually telling the truth.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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