Potential Disgruntled Church Member

Potential Disgruntled Church Member

This is a discussion on Potential Disgruntled Church Member within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This is kind of a long story, will keep it as short as possible and any suggestions on how to handle this situation or thoughts ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Potential Disgruntled Church Member

    This is kind of a long story, will keep it as short as possible and any suggestions on how to handle this situation or thoughts are well appreciated.

    The Church where I attend has kind of a problem. A now-deceased member, great guy, couldn't have asked for anyone nicer has a step-son who apparently was a real piece of work. I never knew the guy, he went to our church many years ago while I was not attending.

    His step dad was ill with diabetes and eventually lost the battle and died. His step-son, who was in the Navy had to get an emergency leave to come back and attend to his step-father's affairs or so we thought. Some of the men in the church went to his step father's house to help him get stuff that we thought he was entitled to via a will. Well, he wan't entitled to much, in fact he may have not been entitled at all. I found out recently that he just cleaned out the house, loaded up his step-dad's pick up with whatever he could get and just drove away.

    We kind of lost contact with him, until a few months later when he came back, announced he had "retired" from the Navy and was going to be living here in Huntington. He didn't retire as we later learned, it was a less than honorable discharge or something to that effect. He showed up one Sunday morning after our early service and before the next one, and was wanting to talk specificially to one of our Parishioners who had been a member of our church for many years. I thouht it was odd, but knew he was a member long ago and figured he was just trying to reconnect.

    Could not have been further from the truth. I was looking at our local newspaper web page and the "Grand Jury" indictments link just popped into my mind. Have no idea why, but I clicked the link and jokingly thought "I wonder if I know any of these people." Halfway down the list, I saw his name, indicted for Identity Theft. Needless to say I was a bit shocked, knowing he had been there previously asking for specific people to "talk" to.

    The next Sunday, I alerted our Priest, told him what I had discovered. Apparently he had no knowledge, plus, this guy was hinting that the church somehow "owed" him money because of his step-father being a member. I don't know the details, but our Vestry told him that the church did not owe him anything. His step-dad, I found out later, had a fairly large life insurance death benefit that he wanted the church to have and his daughter was the beneficiary and delivered the check. I guess the step-son thought he was entitled to it. Who knows.

    Fast forward to recently. He's come back and wanting to be a part of our Vestry, wanting to "help" the church, but all he is really doing is asking for stuff. He gives me the creeps and that funny feeling that he is up to no good. Hate to feel that way, but it's the truth.

    My wife and I started doing some reseach, and we found that not only was he convicted for ID theft, but stolen credit cards, shop lifting, nighttime burglary and was considered a Felon. However, he also sold a 9mm pistol to an undercover BTAF agent along with morphine and oxycondone. This guy is bad news from the get go. He was convicted for the gun charge only, we think he may have rolled over on bigger people, because he only recieved 6 months of home confinement for his crimes.

    My problem now is that we have a guy who seems to be not wanting to come to church for "church" but what he thinks is "owed" to him. We don't owe him a penny, period, but knowing what I do about him gives me the feeling he may do something dangerous should we have to eventually confront him about his past and why he is really coming to church. We have quietly told people in our Congregation and to keep it under wraps and watch this guy carefully.

    So, whatever thoughts any of you have, will be welcome.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green


  2. #2
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    There's little more that you can do. You've quietly informed people that this guy is up to no good, and if you Vestry is anything like those I've served on, no one's going to elect him to it. The only thing your church owes him is the opportunity to seek and serve Christ in all he does, and your congregation should be open to any contrition on his part. With eyes open, of course - "trust, but verify."

    What you don't want to do is to unfairly paint him for all time with the sins of his past, but from your story it seems the greater burden is his to show his true colors, one way of the other.
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    Member Array marinevet1994's Avatar
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    All you can really do, IMO, is to continue to keep an eye on him and make sure people are aware of the facts. Situations like this are why I don't like gun free zones, they keep law abiding people from being equipped to defend themselves and others from those "people" who don't give a rats patotie about the law or their fellow human beings rights.
    JoJoGunn likes this.
    Disarming innocent people does not protect innocent people.


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    Member Array SteveInWV's Avatar
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    Keep doing what you are doing, but also, Please pray for him! He is obviously a troubled person and could definitely use the prayers!

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    any suggestions on how to handle this situation or thoughts are well appreciated.
    Be sure you remain armed, anytime you're likely to be anywhere near this fellow. Suggest that everyone else should be armed as well.

    The last thing you want is to have another one of those church massacres in which nobody has the effective means to survive it.
    JoJoGunn likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Wouldn't the Christian thing be to embrace him as a member and help him become a better Christian?

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    "he also sold a 9mm pistol to an undercover BTAF agent along with morphine and oxycondone"

    Convicted him for the gun sale? I can sell a gun, so I wonder what made his sale a crime.

    The man doesn't need anyone's prayers or embrace. He'd probably pick you wallet while doing so. What he needs is a "You're not welcome here" sign. If you turn the other cheek to people like this, you get smacked twice.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInWV View Post
    Keep doing what you are doing, but also, Please pray for him! He is obviously a troubled person and could definitely use the prayers!
    Yes, I failed to say that we do and are. If he really is truly wanting to have a positive relationship with our Heavenly Father through Chirst, he is welcome and the sins of the past will not be considered. Yet, if a person truly seeks Christ in their life, their behaviour would be different.

    Wouldn't the Christian thing be to embrace him as a member and help him become a better Christian?
    Of course, he has not been told not to come back or that he cannot participate in our Worship. However if the only reason, and I stess "only" reason is that he still feels "entitled" to monetary gain because of his step-father, then he isn't being very "Christian" in attitude. Anyone is welcome to enter into His Courts with praise and thanksgiving, but if they are there to take what isn't rightfully theirs, that is a problem.

    Be sure you remain armed, anytime you're likely to be anywhere near this fellow. Suggest that everyone else should be armed as well.

    The last thing you want is to have another one of those church massacres in which nobody has the effective means to survive it
    Has been considered. Both me and my wife have concealed carry permits in WV. I know of others too, some of them I found out recently, and yes, they are carrying and do carry their pistols to church. My wife does and sometimes I do. With the potential of a disgruntled person exacting some "revenge" against a percieved wrong, then yes, it may come down to carrrying all the time until we find out his true intent.

    So far, thank you for the supporting information. I also would ask your prayers to resolve this situation in a peaceful Christ-like manner.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green

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    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    "he also sold a 9mm pistol to an undercover BTAF agent along with morphine and oxycondone"

    Convicted him for the gun sale? I can sell a gun, so I wonder what made his sale a crime.

    The man doesn't need anyone's prayers or embrace. He'd probably pick you wallet while doing so. What he needs is a "You're not welcome here" sign. If you turn the other cheek to people like this, you get smacked twice.
    He was part of a year long sting investigation by the BTAF. He was convicted of a felony before and law prohibits him from having firearms and being a felon. I guess he hadn't learned that yet. They "dropped" the drug charges in favour of the weapons charge. We think the "light" home confinement sentence of the last six months was due to an agreement made secretly to out his supplier of illegal guns. Not certain, but do believe that is what happend. Yes, I don't trust him, each time he comes to church it is more and more of "what can you do for me" attitude. I definitely have my eye on him in a precautionary manner.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green

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    Member Array SL1ckOne's Avatar
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    As others have already stated. Do what you're doing and always carry. You never know?
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    Convicted him for the gun sale? I can sell a gun, so I wonder what made his sale a crime.


    My guess would be felon in possession of a firearm or possession of a firearm while committing a felony (selling the pills)
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    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    Wouldn't the Christian thing be to embrace him as a member and help him become a better Christian?
    I would agree with this, but part of helping him become "a better Christian" may be church discipline, or at least the steps towards it found in Matt. 18. He should be interviewed and/or confronted by the Church to see if he is repentant. If he isn't, he should be excommunicated and cast out from the fellowship of the congregation. The point is to (hopefully) reconcile him to the church and bring him back into fellowship.

    In the mean time, it doesn't hurt to remain armed and cautious, if he hasn't shown that he's changed his ways.
    JoJoGunn and bigmacque like this.
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    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Be sure you remain armed, anytime you're likely to be anywhere near this fellow. Suggest that everyone else should be armed as well.

    The last thing you want is to have another one of those church massacres in which nobody has the effective means to survive it.
    That my friend would be my greatest fear. That is the sole reason why I have warned others secretly. I don't want him to snap if he doesn't "get" what he believes he is entitled. I have warned others that he still has the potential to be armed and carrying a pistol. He gives me the "I ain't learned my lesson" feeling.

    Trust me, if I have anything to do with it, there will be no "massacre."
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green

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    "Trust me, if I have anything to do with it, there will be no "massacre."

    Shhhhhhhh!
    JoJoGunn likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I'd let him back into the church but limit his access to the church funds. Don't let him pass the plate.
    JoJoGunn likes this.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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