Erosion of our rights

This is a discussion on Erosion of our rights within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; On other post I've talked about the boiling frog scenario related to loosing our rights. It will happen slowly over time and when done we ...

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Thread: Erosion of our rights

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Piratesailor's Avatar
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    Erosion of our rights

    On other post I've talked about the boiling frog scenario related to loosing our rights. It will happen slowly over time and when done we will realize we are cooked. This is a very good example:

    Court OKs warrantless use of hidden surveillance cameras | Politics and Law - CNET News

    Regardless that the people were obviously committing a crime, the question will be were does it stop.

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Too few of us care, that's the problem. I've had people get angry when I tell them it's creepy to have CCTV set up everywhere watching us all the time.

    They think it keeps them safe, it doesn't. It disgusts me frankly.
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  4. #3
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Eventually, curtilage will end at your bathroom door... maybe.

    Drones approved
    Warrantless wiretapping approved
    "open field" surveillance approved.

    I've got NOTHING to hide... But I don't like the way this is going. Not one bit.
    Piratesailor, atctimmy and mg27 like this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #4
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Eventually, curtilage will end at your bathroom door... maybe.

    Drones approved
    Warrantless wiretapping approved
    "open field" surveillance approved.

    I've got NOTHING to hide... But I don't like the way this is going. Not one bit.
    Having nothing to hide has nothing to do with it, I don't either but no one has any right to invade my privacy regardless.

    That phrase is used by the people who openly accept being watched at all times.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    Having nothing to hide has nothing to do with it, I don't either but no one has any right to invade my privacy regardless.

    That phrase is used by the people who openly accept being watched at all times.
    That phrase is also used by a lot of folks here on DC... or it's variant... If you're doing nothing wrong, why does it bother you (that you can be subject to a terry stop, that LEO has a right to disarm you for his own safety, etc, etc, ad infinitum) And I don't like that mindset either...

    Just leave me alone... (not you, CJ... all the surveillance)
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  7. #6
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    That phrase is also used by a lot of folks here on DC... or it's variant... If you're doing nothing wrong, why does it bother you (that you can be subject to a terry stop, that LEO has a right to disarm you for his own safety, etc, etc, ad infinitum) And I don't like that mindset either...

    Just leave me alone... (not you, CJ... all the surveillance)
    I agree, it's scary that so many think that way. Would they be okay with a DHS officer standing in their house at all times watching for "terrorist" activity? Probably not, this is the technological equivalent.

    It violates the 4th amendment too, but the courts sold out a long time ago.

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    Too few of us care, that's the problem. I've had people get angry when I tell them it's creepy to have CCTV set up everywhere watching us all the time.

    They think it keeps them safe, it doesn't. It disgusts me frankly.
    The video does the same thing the police do. It helps in determining and prosecuting crimes that happen, helps with the "cleanup" but will do nothing for an individuals safety. You are right on, but I hope that more people are upset than you think. If not, we may well be headed the way of the UK. I think our Constitution is stronger than their governing documents, so the slide may be slower, but it won't stop us from sliding that way if we do nothing about it.
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    Walk softly ...

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    It seems a dicey proposition to allow authorities to enter fenced areas with No Trespassing signs,
    in order to place surveillance equipment on the property.

    I agree that your open land deserves a bit less protection than you home and surrounding
    curtilage, but it is "creepy" that a posted fence can be blithely ignored.

    Even without the fence and without the signage, the authorities had to know they were on
    private property. They are perfectly free to photograph it from the air if they wish.
    atctimmy likes this.
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    I can see zero justification behind warrantless searches of this sort.

    Can't imagine why having an independent, third-party review of the facts and claims prior to intrusion is such an onerous hurdle. Because, without it, and without stiff "teeth" in the statutes for contravention, there's essentially no practical limit to abuses.

    Sure, it makes intrusion simpler. Sure, it helps acquire evidence against citizens, for cases being made. But the price of that is liberty and evisceration of the Constitutional protections guaranteed every citizen. To my way of thinking, there's nothing that justifies such a price.

    We're going to live to regret it ... unless we force those abusing the concept to regret it by forcing repealing of such hateful end-around statutes and implementing stiff penalties for those (in courts, LE, Justice) who abuse the protections.
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  11. #10
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post


    I can see zero justification behind warrantless searches of this sort.

    Can't imagine why having an independent, third-party review of the facts and claims prior to intrusion is such an onerous hurdle. Because, without it, and without stiff "teeth" in the statutes for contravention, there's essentially no practical limit to abuses.

    Sure, it makes intrusion simpler. Sure, it helps acquire evidence against citizens, for cases being made. But the price of that is liberty and evisceration of the Constitutional protections guaranteed every citizen. To my way of thinking, there's nothing that justifies such a price.

    We're going to live to regret it ... unless we force those abusing the concept to regret it by forcing repealing of such hateful end-around statutes and implementing stiff penalties for those (in courts, LE, Justice) who abuse the protections.
    Yeah, What he said!

    Keep in mind that I don't care who you are, you are in violation of some federal/state/local law or administrative code. It may be minor... it could involve mitigation of hazardous materials... it could be financially devastating to you if you are caught.

    You are completely unaware of your non-compliance. But we all know ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    Believe it. It's fact.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  12. #11
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    Re: Erosion of our rights

    Another thread that's causing the chip in the back of my neck to give me a headache.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Eventually, curtilage will end at your bathroom door... maybe.

    Drones approved
    Warrantless wiretapping approved
    "open field" surveillance approved.

    I've got NOTHING to hide... But I don't like the way this is going. Not one bit.
    Everybody has something to hide. That is why we hide when we do it.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  14. #13
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    The video does the same thing the police do. It helps in determining and prosecuting crimes that happen, helps with the "cleanup" but will do nothing for an individuals safety. You are right on, but I hope that more people are upset than you think. If not, we may well be headed the way of the UK. I think our Constitution is stronger than their governing documents, so the slide may be slower, but it won't stop us from sliding that way if we do nothing about it.
    At least when it is the police, you usually know! They can technically tap into your phone and hear you anytime they want, but they are the NSA's and CIA's of the government.

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