Another dog shot by homeowner/LEO-You decide

This is a discussion on Another dog shot by homeowner/LEO-You decide within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by nmbr5ml I have a dog. She's a very sweet boxer and jack russell terrier mix. She's not vicious, in fact she's afraid ...

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Thread: Another dog shot by homeowner/LEO-You decide

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmbr5ml View Post
    I have a dog. She's a very sweet boxer and jack russell terrier mix. She's not vicious, in fact she's afraid of her own shadow. We were out for a walk once and startled a deer and she almost knocked me down trying to get away. She can react defensively and growl around strangers, like most dogs. She would never bite them.

    Now, here's the thing: if she winds up in someone else's yard, I don't expect them to know this. I look at it from their point of view. They can assume the growling is just bluster. If they're wrong, maybe they get a minor bite on the forearm. Maybe it causes nerve damage. Maybe you need both hands to work as a cop, or whatever else. Maybe you're not a fan of your own dog getting chewed up while you call animal control and hide in your house. It's a dog, that is, for all you know, stray and/or rabid.

    That's why I make sure the gates are closed when our dog goes out to drop the deuce. That's why she wears a leash when we go for a run. Anything less, she could be hit by a car, or dispatched by a neighbor who isn't willing to try to support his family on a $900/month disability pension as a consequence of trying to be humane and rescue my pet.

    That's life. If you value your pet, keep it safe. If you don't, put the blame where it belongs.
    Good for you, Mr. nmbr5ml, for accepting responsibility for your dog but I do, however, take issue with the part in bold. If it is routine for your dog to be defensive and growl around strangers then you and your dog have socialization issues because this is not normal for a pet. Only the pack leader gets to growl at anybody or give permission to subordinates to do so. Even trained attack dogs are not, and especially, allowed to get snarky without permission.

    Every dog has the potential to bite.

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  3. #47
    Member Array tommy62's Avatar
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    Shoot mine. Cop or not. You'll have bigger problems than a dog.

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    One of the things I've always enjoyed about smaller towns is the general neighborliness, as compared to larger cities. It's always impressed me when newly-arrived neighbors that had dogs would come around to introduce themselves and ensure their dogs were known. In the few instances I can recall, many were also families with kids, and local kids were invited to come over to play with the kids, dogs. Everyone got to know the animals on the block, and blowback such as described in this article was almost unheard of. Nowadays, particularly in larger cities, lots of folks don't take any time to get to know other folks/pets in neighborhoods. Hence, ugly, zero-tolerance situations like this.
    That sums it up. Sadly enough over the past couple of decades demographic shifts have brought about some changes to small towns and communities too. The zero tolerance thing usually equates with zero thinking and the result is often ugly.
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  5. #49
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    Here's what we don't know. Did the owner make a habit of letting his dog run loose? Did the neighbor just move in and the LEO had no idea of it's temperment? Had the dog been aggressive previously?

    I have a Boston Terrier that's weighs about 27 pounds. He stays in our yard. He's never bitten anyone or even acted like he wanted to bite. Twice, when we first moved in 3 years ago, he ran into the neighbors yard (before he knew where his boundries were). If my neighbor had come out with a 22 and shot my dog 3 times I would be devastated, worse than devastated. Could you not wait half an hour for me to find him? Could you not have called animal control? Could you not have come over to my house, banged on the door and told me to get my dog off your property before you shoot it? (Thankfully I live in a neighborhood where people treat each other with respect and concern, so that woould never happen).

    I just think the LEO acted in haste and now a man has lost his dog. The picture of the Pit is a very different picture than the dog in question. It's like saying you have a "quirky" neighbor and then holding up a picture of Charles Manson.
    Youre right. There's a lot we don't know. According to the LEO he was going to unchain his dog when the other dog appeared again and became aggressive. He fired a warning shot. Then he killed the dog. At least from the LEOs point of view he was acting in self-defense. That's not the same as your Boston Terrier wandering into your neighbors yard. We don't know all the facts. Only the LEO really does, as he was apparently alone when the dog was shot. I'm not in favor of shooting dogs. I'm also not in favor of having to be in fear of a dog bite on my own property. Each situation is going to be different and the truth is we just don't know if the shooter was in fear for his safety. If he was, he's justified. No one else can decide what his actions should have been. The rest is just conjecture based on anecdotal evidence "he was a friendly dog", etc....
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  6. #50
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    Poking at your arguments a little...

    "Having children is a responsibility. If you cannot control your child, stop having children. You cannot require that your neighbors interpret the intentions of your child. You cannot expect HUMANS to alter their behavior for YOUR LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY.

    An child is unpredictable. A firearm is an inanimate object. Everyone is so emotional about these child shootings. So much love being expressed for the poor children. I submit that if these people loved their children they wouldn't allow them to run at neighbors. They wouldn't let them stand outside a neighbors car intimidating people. They wouldn't let their children run onto other people's property."

    My house was recently shot up by the neighbor's kids. Way more dangerous than a dog coming onto the property. You won't find me advocating for shooting the child. There was a much better way of handling the situation, and so too was there in the shooting of this animal.

    Facts...the guy felt so threatened he left the vehicle, got a rifle and went looking for the animal. SURE HE WAS THREATENED, yeah right.

    The guy discharged a rifle not once, not twice, but three times in a neighborhood. Poor judgement to say the least.

    If the shooter were not a leo i suspect charges would have been filed.

    The ease at which some on this forum advocate shooting is disconcerting. A complete lack of empathy, understanding, a decency is clear. This is the guy's neighbor we are talking about. His actions were way beyond acceptable.

    As for the STOP comments why don't you stop. Don't like the argument come back with some logical response other than stop stop.

  7. #51
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy62 View Post
    Shoot mine. Cop or not. You'll have bigger problems than a dog.
    Threats solve nothing. Instead of focusing on what you'd do to the guy who shoots your dog, maybe think about what you can do to keep your dog from getting shot. You know, like keeping him away from your neighbors property. Keeping him under your control. To me, sad as it is, this is just another example of a lack of personal accountability. It plagues our society. Dog owner allows dog to run all over the neighborhood without concern for his neighbors. Dog gets shot. Dog owner blames shooter, and cries foul.

  8. #52
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    Poking at your arguments a little...

    "Having children is a responsibility. If you cannot control your child, stop having children. You cannot require that your neighbors interpret the intentions of your child. You cannot expect HUMANS to alter their behavior for YOUR LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY.

    An child is unpredictable. A firearm is an inanimate object. Everyone is so emotional about these child shootings. So much love being expressed for the poor children. I submit that if these people loved their children they wouldn't allow them to run at neighbors. They wouldn't let them stand outside a neighbors car intimidating people. They wouldn't let their children run onto other people's property."

    My house was recently shot up by the neighbor's kids. Way more dangerous than a dog coming onto the property. You won't find me advocating for shooting the child. There was a much better way of handling the situation, and so too was there in the shooting of this animal.

    Facts...the guy felt so threatened he left the vehicle, got a rifle and went looking for the animal. SURE HE WAS THREATENED, yeah right.

    The guy discharged a rifle not once, not twice, but three times in a neighborhood. Poor judgement to say the least.

    If the shooter were not a leo i suspect charges would have been filed.

    The ease at which some on this forum advocate shooting is disconcerting. A complete lack of empathy, understanding, a decency is clear. This is the guy's neighbor we are talking about. His actions were way beyond acceptable.

    As for the STOP comments why don't you stop. Don't like the argument come back with some logical response other than stop stop.
    Ha! you call that logic? All you did was make a ridiculous comparison even more ridiculous. I would have never shot that dog. That's not the point. Children aren't animals. Theyre human beings. If you choose to place equal significance on the life of a child and the life of a dog, go ahead. Don't be upset when people call you on it. You don't advocate shooting children? Bravo! A dog is NOT a child. In regards to my STOP comment. Stating that a dog in your vicinity is the same as a firearm in your vicinity makes no sense. The dog IS unpredictable. A firearm is not. No one is being a hypocrite. But I suspect you know that. I think you are probably right about a lack of empathy. However, I stand by my opinion. Control your dog.

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Depends on the dog. Depends on the situation.

    Doesn't depend on mere presence.

    I got bit the other day ...... the owner was walking the dog on a leash ..... it bit me from behind. I don't blame the dog, I blame the owner. If you want an aggressive dog for home security, then keep the mutt away from people. Now if that mutt was off the leash, and threatening my kid, I would shoot it in a heartbeat.

    All dog owners say "Rover is a gentle dog, and all he did was nip you".

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Ha! you call that logic? All you did was make a ridiculous comparison even more ridiculous. I would have never shot that dog. That's not the point. Children aren't animals. Theyre human beings. If you choose to place equal significance on the life of a child and the life of a dog, go ahead. Don't be upset when people call you on it. You don't advocate shooting children? Bravo! A dog is NOT a child. In regards to my STOP comment. Stating that a dog in your vicinity is the same as a firearm in your vicinity makes no sense. The dog IS unpredictable. A firearm is not. No one is being a hypocrite. But I suspect you know that. I think you are probably right about a lack of empathy. However, I stand by my opinion. Control your dog.
    I hardly call the comparison ridiculous. Both involve trespassing. One happens to be a dog the other a child. In either instance the person receiving the trespass is equally upset. My point is this is a neighbor, not some unknown entity in an unfamiliar location. There were much better options available for dealing with the situation. The problem with zero tolerance positions is that it leads to foolish and sometimes tragic results.

    Call me on it, so what. We won't ever agree clearly, that there is value in all life including a dog. One needed only to read the article to see the extraordinary potential of this dog to impact it's owners life in such a positive way. That was abruptly taken from him in a violent way. Was he responsible for the dog straying, yes. Was the extreme response justified, no way.

    Dog in vicinity equals firearm makes no sense...neither do the beliefs of firearm opponents. Yet the belief is still there and they act on it. Some are unreasonably fearful of dogs and want to act on any dog that approaches. That is not reasonable either. The comparison makes perfect sense to me. We as gun owners want others to have a reasonable understanding of our position and not an unreasonable fear of the gun. Yet many seem to have an unreasonable fear of dogs and want to shoot something, anything, at the drop of a hat. That is unreasonable fear and a poor excuse for justifying extreme actions. Hypocritical in my book.

  11. #55
    Member Array Dcasandman's Avatar
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    If you dont want your dog shot, run over, stabbed, kicked, or hit keep it in your own back yard. The best dog owners are the ones you never know own a dog. I have bird dogs and an inside dog, but if either bit my child or someone else or had issues acting overly aggressive I would have no issue putting my own dog down. People are to attached to damn animals. If the guy felt threatened at all by a dog that should have been put up or on a leash who cares if it's dead. It is the owners own fault. It doesnt matter if it is a Vet with PTSD or Micheal Vick.
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  12. #56
    Member Array Dcasandman's Avatar
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    Also, If I had a dollar for every time I have been in the OR watching a kid get sown after being attacked by the most harmless dog ever my savings account would be looking pretty good by now. Every owner thinks their dog is a saint just like every parent thinks their kids are. Dogs bite people period end of story. Be a responsible owner and it will not happen.
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  13. #57
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    I hardly call the comparison ridiculous. Both involve trespassing. One happens to be a dog the other a child. In either instance the person receiving the trespass is equally upset. My point is this is a neighbor, not some unknown entity in an unfamiliar location. There were much better options available for dealing with the situation. The problem with zero tolerance positions is that it leads to foolish and sometimes tragic results.

    I don't believe the person receiving the trespass is equally upset. I believe a dog and a child represent totally different situations.

    Call me on it, so what. We won't ever agree clearly, that there is value in all life including a dog. One needed only to read the article to see the extraordinary potential of this dog to impact it's owners life in such a positive way. That was abruptly taken from him in a violent way. Was he responsible for the dog straying, yes. Was the extreme response justified, no way.

    On the above point, we agree, mostly.

    Dog in vicinity equals firearm makes no sense...neither do the beliefs of firearm opponents. Yet the belief is still there and they act on it. Some are unreasonably fearful of dogs and want to act on any dog that approaches. That is not reasonable either. The comparison makes perfect sense to me. We as gun owners want others to have a reasonable understanding of our position and not an unreasonable fear of the gun. Yet many seem to have an unreasonable fear of dogs and want to shoot something, anything, at the drop of a hat. That is unreasonable fear and a poor excuse for justifying extreme actions. Hypocritical in my book.
    I understand your point, here. However, I think the situations are totally different. A gun owner expecting someone to not have an unreasonable fear of another law-abiding citizen owning or carrying a gun is reasonable. There is no overt threat made by the firearm. Especially a concealed firearm. A dog on your property is a different story. Each situation has so many variables. The fears of the person, the attitude of the dog (which can change in an instant), the presence of children or other dogs, etc... In my estimation gun owners aren't being hypocritical just because they support someone's right to defend himself from a stray dog. LET ME BE CLEAR, I think the LEOs actions appear extreme. From the story, he seems to have been aware that it was his neighbors dog. Surely, a call to the neighbor, or even a blatant warning to the neighbor could've helped. I wasn't in his situation, so I will NOT condemn his response.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcasandman View Post
    People are to attached to damn animals. If the guy felt threatened at all by a dog that should have been put up or on a leash who cares if it's dead. It is the owners own fault. It doesnt matter if it is a Vet with PTSD or Micheal Vick.
    I think I'm going to bail out on this one.
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  15. #59
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    Where I live the corner neighbor that just moved in a year ago has three hyper Field Retrievers on a Electric Fence. The major problem with them was there was a few times that they viciously attacked my kids without biting them but my neighbors daughter wasn't so fortunate.

    She was bit by one of them as she was walking home from being dropped off from School Bus. My son on one occasion was charged by the same retriever that bit neighbors daughter and my daughter and other neighbors daughter was charged by two out of the three at another time.

    When I called the local Sheriff to respond to my daughters encounter, Sheriff went to my neighbors house to inform him of complaint. My neighbor argued with him concerning his dogs, really?

    Typical of many dog owners, "It's not my dog that's the problem. It is the person walking past my house"!
    Dog Owners keep your dogs leashed, behind a fence or in a kennel PERIOD! It only takes one time an tragedy can happen.
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  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frado View Post
    Where I live the corner neighbor that just moved in a year ago has three hyper Field Retrievers on a Electric Fence. The major problem with them was there was a few times that they viciously attacked my kids without biting them but my neighbors daughter wasn't so fortunate.

    She was bit by one of them as she was walking home from being dropped off from School Bus. My son on one occasion was charged by the same retriever that bit neighbors daughter and my daughter and other neighbors daughter was charged by two out of the three at another time.

    When I called the local Sheriff to respond to my daughters encounter, Sheriff went to my neighbors house to inform him of complaint. My neighbor argued with him concerning his dogs, really?

    Typical of many dog owners, "It's not my dog that's the problem. It is the person walking past my house"!
    Dog Owners keep your dogs leashed, behind a fence or in a kennel PERIOD! It only takes one time an tragedy can happen.
    This is a totally different scenerio than the one in the article. If a dog like that is running the neighborhood and onto your property you woud be justified in shooting it. Actually, that owner makes me angry. Dogs by nature aren't vicious, you have to teach them that...usually by being cruel and vicious to them.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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