LTC Grossman:Is he just rehashing what everybody already knows?

LTC Grossman:Is he just rehashing what everybody already knows?

This is a discussion on LTC Grossman:Is he just rehashing what everybody already knows? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; First, before everyone gets excited I will say I like reading Ltc Grossman's materials and he is a nice guy. I met him once years ...

Results 1 to 11 of 11
Like Tree8Likes
  • 1 Post By WHEC724
  • 7 Post By glockman10mm

Thread: LTC Grossman:Is he just rehashing what everybody already knows?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,882

    LTC Grossman:Is he just rehashing what everybody already knows?

    First, before everyone gets excited I will say I like reading Ltc Grossman's materials and he is a nice guy. I met him once years ago. But is he telling us anything new that is not well founded with others writings and training doctrine? I feel he just uses different words and puts forth information that is either already known to the read and reinforces it or expounds on what we already know using his physcology background.

    Sometimes a name is enough for folks to beleive what that person says if it reinforces what they want to beleive.

    Just a wandering thought.....came to my mind when I read that he advocated a drill where you take ear pro off. Just wondering how many folks read that and say "gee, Grossman said it was a good idea so it must be"
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    1,095
    For me On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society: Dave Grossman: 9780316040938: Amazon.com: Books was transformational. Maybe others could have said it but I heard it from him and it clicked. "One size does not fit all" and others might receive the message better from someone else. I'm not too concerned who you learn "the idea" from, just that you learn it. There will always people who belong to the cult of personality and I'm not sure how to fix that.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788

  3. #3
    Member Array Nutrodoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    153
    I agree with Caertaker. I learned a lot from On Killing. I've been involved in self-protection, police work, security, etc. to some degree for over 40 years and there were many things in that well-researched book that I had not known before.

  4. #4
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,536
    I think it's more a factor of the firearms instructional vocation becoming a very crowded space these days. Trainers posture to differentiate themselves. Good fundamentals get broken down into minute pieces and are examined and argued in great detail. The consumer must be careful to take this analysis in context.
    glockman10mm likes this.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,042
    That could be said of a lot of folks who make "hay" on putting good info in front of us. To whatever degree, I'm sure it's true.

    Still, it's why we go to educators, instructors, "gurus" and others: 'cause they've got info with some utility to us, "rehashed" or not.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,882
    WHEC724 and cc29mm explains it well. IMO the folks that make the money and get the name recognition are the ones that can articulate to THEIR audience better than others.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  7. #7
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    I think there are things that people might suspect or might have gotten a little taste of in this or that training environment. Maybe they heard a little of it here or there, but, as posted above, LTC Grossman stood up, staid it plainly in one place and in a way that everyone could understand. For a lot of people (myself included) reading his works such as On Killing and On Combat were an experience such as, "Yeah! That makes total sense. Why didn't I think of that?" Or "Well, duh. I knew that." But he clarified the thought process.

    Also, I know for a fact that for some people who have been to combat and had conflicting feelings about what they had to do and weren't sure if they could talk about their feelings for fear that someone else wouldn't understand, they read his books and think, "Wow! Not only is the way I'm feeling okay, it's NORMAL!!"

    A friend of mine just recently had that experience. He had a bad experience in Iraq and was really torn up about it. His wife (who's been friends with me since we were babies) called me and asked for any recommendations. I suggested they BOTH read On Combat and On Killing. He contacted me later and said it was such a weight off of his shoulders. He was spending a lot of time feeling guilty for feeling so relieved and happy that he had killed someone and thought that surely there was something wrong with him. He realized now that it was perfectly acceptable to feel happy that you lived and the other guy died. And it was perfectly normal and acceptable to feel kind of bad about that.

    He was able to recognize the steps of his own progress through the "killing process" and be okay with it, I think, a little faster than if he had to figure it out all on his own or take the time to get up the courage to talk to other combat vets and realize that he wasn't alone.

    Yeah, I think the information is out there in other forms but it's not talked about so much. Let's face it, it's not necessarily great dinner conversation and you should have seen the evil looks I got when I took On Killing on a plane with me. I'm shocked I made it on the plane with the book. It's such a taboo subject outside of Law Enforcement, Military or the rare home that is comfortable with the subject of not just death but the act of deliberately and justifiably taking another life.

    It's nice to have a clear reference material that doesn't apologize for what it is.

    Now, I don't agree with EVERYTHING LTC Grossman speculates in other areas but I think he's pretty spot on when it comes to the process of killing and the emotions surrounding it.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,042
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    IMO the folks that make the money and get the name recognition are the ones that can articulate to THEIR audience better than others.
    Yup.

    CYA: Can You Articulate.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,329
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I feel he just uses different words and puts forth information that is either already known to the read and reinforces it or expounds on what we already know using his physcology background.
    My problem is he speaks and nobody is listening! Case in point, October 10th the PD Chief introduced Ltc. Grossman at a seminar/briefing/training session in the Mexifornia city I consult for. We had ±200 LEOs, City Managers, Educational Supervisiors in the group. The non-LEOs were appalled that he would discuss the issues with having armed guards in a school system or on a bus! They all concurred that an event like Beslan or Ma'alot massacres could NEVER happen here!

    When he even suggested that the licensed concealed carry personnel be drafted to support the LE community during a crisis, this again brought a negative reaction! Citizen with guns! OMG!

    Again this was Mexifornia** so you need to temper their reaction with their mindless set! But again, He speaks and nobody is listening! Except a choosen few!

    ** Read the book: Mexifornia: A State of Becoming: Victor Davis Hanson: 9781594032172: Amazon.com: Books

    You'll also find the author at the CATO book store with additional books penned by him!


    In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. -- John Adams

    If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free! -- P.J. O'Rourke

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,042
    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    My problem is he speaks and nobody is listening!
    Failure to listen, coming with preconceptions/biases fully intact ... At nearly every training seminar or event I've ever been to, there has been a number of folks who wouldn't open their minds to what was being said.

    As you point out, Beslan certainly could happen here (USA). In a sense, a variation of it already did in the UT "tower" shooting some years back, though that wasn't hardly a multi-BG planned attack. The Mumbai assault from a few years ago took out 160+ people. All it takes is the will to do it, more or less. The undefended, unprotected, unguarded spots incapable of effective defense abound. Right here in our own back yards. Duh, I'd say. Bummer, that so many don't listen to what really should be common sense.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,918
    Personally, no. I am not intrigued or wowed by this guy or any other guru. However, I respect and agree with his take on some issues. Same with Ayoob, Smith, and others.

    I suspect, it has alot to do with where you are in life at a given point and time. For me, I am not interested in or concerned with gun fighting, or SD in general to the point I was some years ago. My interests have changed, I have grown wiser, and, there is really not much new that I can learn in this particular discipline or study.

    For 40 years I have watched the gun industry and shooting school industry evolve. Way back before concealed carry was even thought of, and schools catered mostly to LEO or agency training, Americans went about their daily business unarmed, and content to learn and use the home firearm to good effect, with some informal " plinking sessions" in the back yard. Many men and woman successfully fought off or wounded and killed intruders without the benefit of gurus and shooting schools. Regardless of your opinion on that, it is true.

    Today the industry is a money making monster, with one goal; to take your money. And every person has to reinvent the concept, put a different twist on it, to market and get their share of the prize.

    Even the guns manufactured today, are no more credible or effective for the everyday person than they were 30 or 40 years ago. The so called " Shield" is no more effective or usable than the old "Chiefs Special " brought out 50 years or so back then. The original "hi cap" design, the BHP, is just as good as the Glock, and the M10 is just as good as anything on the market today.

    What has changed is perception. The business has "created" a new and ever changing market in an effort to boost and keep up sales of new firearms. Likewise, the teaching industry has done the same thing, and the ammo companies jump on there too.

    In other words, if you dont own a hi cap polymer gun loaded with umteen rounds of the latest bullet technology, and subscribe to the philosophy of xyx guru and shooting school, then by todays standards, you dont stand a snowballs chance in hell of successful self defense. The tail wags the dog.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

ltc don grossman
,

ltc grossman

,
ltc grossman firearms
,
ltc grossman seminars
,
ltc grossman speaks
,
where do you think will go when everyone already knows
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors