Secession? - Page 2

Secession?

This is a discussion on Secession? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I don't think this is a political thread in the conventional sense of the way we use that to mean partisan politics. It is a ...

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  1. #16
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    I don't think this is a political thread in the conventional sense of the way we use that to mean partisan politics.

    It is a political thread in the sense that policy--root of the word politics-- (and law and history) would have to be discussed to enable the thread to become educational and of some real value beyond entertainment.

    FWIW, secession was the topic of the day at the earliest of our history. NE states had a variety of grievances and
    resented Virginian dominance of the office of Presidency (Jefferson, Madison, Monroe). The War of 1812
    and many military actions undertaken before, and during that war by Andrew Jackson cemented The Union by
    making membership in it a rather desirable goal. Same for the US-Mexican war of 1846, which greatly expanded
    US (and especially Texas) territory; which prior ended about where Corpus Christi is today and not at the Rio Grande.

    Maybe if TX were serious about secession it would be serious about giving that chunk of territory won by the US Army
    back to Mexico? Maybe someone should ask that sage mind of our Governor's what he would think of that?

    After all, the territory TX brought into The Union was considerably smaller than the territory brought to Texas through the military
    action of The Union Army in 1846.



    The constitution is silent on the matter but history is far from silent. Case law even after The Civil War
    is also not silent on the matter:
    Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869)
    rottkeeper and wmhawth like this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    Well, until a state actually petitions the Federal govt. for secession, with a majority vote from the upper & lower house of their legislature, all of these "petitions" are kinda meaningless as they do not officially speak for anyone or any state.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Darrow75's Avatar
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    It's funny to me that the same people who would have been up in arms if anyone said "if Bush wins again,I'm leaving the country" back in 2004 are the same people that are now talking secession.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    we all know what the official response will be:

    "while we have strong differences in our views & beliefs, we are all one nation and should strive to work together to tackle our common problems. we can't expect us all to follow the exact same path and agenda, except the agenda of making America a better place for our children & grandchildren".

    :)
    = "Thank you for sharing that."

  5. #20
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    Texas has no state tax as of now. We have more fortune 500 companies than any other state. We have a thriving petroleum industry, a thriving semiconductor industry, and many others that go right along with it. Quite frankly I have about as much in common with someone from NY or CA as I do with someone from Australia. Let me stop paying half of what I'm paying to the fed (which for all I know is going to NY or CA anyway) and let me pay half that to the Texas government and I'm sure Texas would be just fine.

    Quite frankly I'm sick of decisions being made for states by governmental figures that have nothing to do with that state (think AZ being sued for trying to enforce federal laws the fed refuses to enforce.) Also quite frankly I'm quite sick of being associated with the idiotic centers of liberalism in this country... NY (Bloomburg) and LA lobbyists need not try to decide what is best for me, Texas, or the rest of the country for that matter. That's why some of us are pushing for succession. Call me a traitor again.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mg27 View Post
    He lost the election. It was rigged I believe and if it wasnt rigged, there was fraud in every city in America, Just like where Im near. PHILLY. There was a ton of fraud there, Listeners to the radio station were in tears where it was said in the district where they lived that Romney got No votes. B.S. the lines were flooded with people black and white who voted against obama in certain districts and their votes didnt count, not to mention the 3hours where the republican oversears where kicked out of the polls. X's that by every city.. But I think Its higher thann that, I believe Obama was already appointed to be president by the Kenites or the UN.. I hate corruption. It is off topic humer now because its gonna backfire on all the ones who wanted FREE s&^t


    People would say you are crazy, but I been saying the same thing for years. Our votes don't count. The election is 'settled', and 'arranged' months BEFORE you go to the polls. Yes I still vote but I realize it does NO good.
    mg27 and msgt/ret like this.

  7. #22
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    I agree that this thread skirts the questionable "politics" rule but so far it has remained civil and not a political debate.

    Personally, I think the threat of secession is as others have said, an demonstration of grievances. I do not think these people are traitors. In fact, I think they love America very much and want the best for it and are saddened by what they perceive is happening to it.

    Their thought might just be along this line:
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
    I didn't write that, by the way. ;)

    I would say that it takes a bit of courage to stand up and say, "I'm feel so abused by my government that I'm willing to throw it off."

    Now, I would venture to say that our freedom to make such a declaration emboldens these people.

    If they knew they would be tried for treason I doubt very seriously that you would see so many names on petitions. It's evidence to the fact that we still have a pretty good gig going here. You can sign a petition declaring you want to abolish your current government and not fear a thing in response.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 old 0311 View Post
    People would say you are crazy, but I been saying the same thing for years. Our votes don't count. The election is 'settled', and 'arranged' months BEFORE you go to the polls. Yes I still vote but I realize it does NO good.
    It's called the Electoral Collage... it was supposed to keep the mob from ruling because the electoral representatives were supposed to represent the needs of the people even if they were disillusioned. But what happened is the representatives have been corrupted. You can have 99.9% of a state voting one way and still get another result because a couple of people are part of a particular party.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    Well, until a state actually petitions the Federal govt. for secession, with a majority vote from the upper & lower house of their legislature, all of these "petitions" are kinda meaningless as they do not officially speak for anyone or any state.
    The problem is that bad ideas sometimes take on a life and momentum of their own, and then the bad idea becomes
    a serious problem to be dealt with. Secession talk should be ridiculed and squelched IMO before it becomes a danger
    to us all.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodle View Post
    Quite frankly I'm sick of decisions being made for states by governmental figures that have nothing to do with that state (think AZ being sued for trying to enforce federal laws the fed refuses to enforce.)
    Sadly, that is true, and yet another symptom of Beltway Sickness.
    atctimmy likes this.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrow75 View Post
    It's funny to me that the same people who would have been up in arms if anyone said "if Bush wins again,I'm leaving the country" back in 2004 are the same people that are now talking secession.
    Really? I would welcome that. Sadly, Madonna and Cher never left.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

    http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...eaves%20office

  12. #27
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    I don't think any of the people signing petitions for secession really want to seceed. I think they are showing their frustration for the way things are going in our government today. It's as if it's on a fast train downhill with no way to stop it.
    Frustrating to say the least.
    mg27 and BamaT like this.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

    http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...eaves%20office

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    I don't think any of the people signing petitions for secession really want to seceed. I think they are showing their frustration for the way things are going in our government today. It's as if it's on a fast train downhill with no way to stop it.
    Frustrating to say the least.
    You forgot the Dixie Chicks.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  14. #29
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    My state, West Virginia is actually a product of secession, one that created the Civil War. There were 40 some counties of the State of Virginia that elected not to seceede and remained loyal to the Union while the rest of Virginia ended up in the Confederacy and that began the conflict.

    To say that West Virginia should seceede is kind of dumb considering we were not a part of the United States until 1863 and only on the condition that Virginia or part of it no longer was a part of the U.S.

    Honestly, the thought of "leaving" the U.S. is reminicent of the Canadian Province of Quebec every so often wanting to leave Canada and be their "own" country. It won't work, they would not be able to sustain for very long. Secession of any U.S. state would be downright dumb.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    You forgot the Dixie Chicks.
    Because they're so forgettable.
    msgt/ret and atctimmy like this.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

    http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...eaves%20office

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