Parent Run Security Group

This is a discussion on Parent Run Security Group within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by suntzu ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And one armed security guard at a school is going to thwart a terrorists attack? Okee Dokee. I was on ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    And one armed security guard at a school is going to thwart a terrorists attack? Okee Dokee. I was on board with you at first but if that is your rationale then I am not so sure.
    Haha. Let me be a bit more specific please. A two man team, well trained and equipped (as I mentioned in an earlier post) would/could hold off a determined suicide squad of terrorists, until an adequate law enforcement/tactical team could arrive and join the battle.

    Remember what our two former Navy SEALs that this administration abandoned in Benghazi accomplished, by themselves? Reportedly took out over 80 combatants, that were equipped with automatic weapons and Rocket Propelled Grenades. Damn sure be better off than having nothing I'd submit.

    Now I don't think our security teams would be Navy SEAL caliber warriors (though that would be the ideal, huh?) but they would have the benefit of intimate knowledge of the battleground, superior training, and time would be on their side, as the terrorist knows that they need to get in, get their evil deeds done, and kill themselves or escape before the calvary arrives. The security team would need to lock down the property, and take the fight to the BG, protecting the sheep, and buying time until help arrives, and help WILL be coming, and quickly.

    Proper training, proper equipment, and extreme violence carries the day. The BG's I'm concerned with have minimal training, whatever weapons they can obtain on the black market here in the U.S., and no intimate knowledge of their target ground. I'm convinced it's doable, and again, a hell of a lot better than doing nothing, and hoping the wolf never shows up at the door. Be safe sir.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Sturmruger's Avatar
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    @KBSR I think it would extremely hard to sell school officials on having long guns in school. I have a friend who is a high school safety officer and he is having issues getting approved for mounting a safe in his office to keep a long gun. One serious concern is most of these young men really do a considerable amount of planning before pulling off this type of attack. My hope is that by hearing about the armed security personnel in the school they will avoid any confrontation all together.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmruger View Post
    This is really more about dissuading deranged young men from choosing to target a school. Knowing there is an armed person in the school ready to respond will keep most of these attacks from happening. Yes it is a small chance of happening but if you son or daughter are dead that small chance will not make you feel any better.

    As for Liability insurance here in Wisconsin they built liability protection in to our carry law. Any place of business that allows concealed carry is not liable for the actions of someone that is carrying.

    Also here in Wisconsin individuals can be authorized to carry on school property.
    I am no lawyer and I am going to take a swag at this one. But my understanding of liability being waived because someone allows you to carry only pertains to the fact you are a CCP holder. I beleive it is a whole different thing if you are hired, volunteer or not, to be security at an establishment. You are in effect being hired or contracted by the shool or given permission to be there armed for the sole purpose of security. I highly duobt anything is waived.

    But again, no lawyer herre.
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  5. #19
    Ex Member Array Piratesailor's Avatar
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    I like your thinking. As an option, what about Leo's that are on limited disability, that can still perform some degree of protection, stationed at schools?

  6. #20
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    I don't think the nation is in any mood right now to let people with guns anywhere near a school.

    The concept may be doable but the will of the unwashed masses isn't there.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmruger View Post
    I read an article about a Jewish school that has parents guarding the school.

    To be a member of the security group there would be several requirements.

    • background check
    • resident carry permit
    • 4-8 hours of training every 90 days(edited to be more clear)
    • pistol qualification
    • live fire training
    • Retention holster
    • Child or Grandchild in the school district
    • If no children retired LEO or Military
    • Panel review of application
    • $50 a year for dues

    There is much that is good with this idea, I think. It would have to be the right sort of person. I agree with the stringent selection criteria, and the periodic "Saturday morning's" worth of training/review on current events, changes in school policy, changes in the landscape.

    I'd think the panel charged with selection and review would benefit by having LE presence on the panel. They could provide very good input and some balance to efforts. A couple each of responsible parents, educators, and LEOs, perhaps.

    IMO, the initial training needs to include a solid introduction to and understanding of the school type environment. Particularly as it gets to the 9-12 grades, the dynamic can dramatically change, as can the threats and degree of risk for all (if handled badly). The group needs to be in lock-step with the administration and the school district, and the admin/district needs to be 100% fully on board with the purpose of the group.

    So long as the training aspect, the legal issues, and the solid periodic review is considered a part of it, I'd support the concept. Good idea, IMO.
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  8. #22
    Member Array Sturmruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    So long as the training aspect, the legal issues, and the solid periodic review is considered a part of it, I'd support the concept. Good idea, IMO.
    Thanks I am hoping it could work. I agree the that there hardest part of the whole scenario is going to be liability issues. The school will want us to have our own policy but we are going to have zero money for that kind of thing. I am thinking that maybe we could get funding to operate for one year in the hope that it would be so successful we could clone the program across the our state.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmruger View Post
    @KBSR I think it would extremely hard to sell school officials on having long guns in school. I have a friend who is a high school safety officer and he is having issues getting approved for mounting a safe in his office to keep a long gun. One serious concern is most of these young men really do a considerable amount of planning before pulling off this type of attack. My hope is that by hearing about the armed security personnel in the school they will avoid any confrontation all together.
    Did you read the article by Col. David Grossman that was attached to another thread tonight? If you haven't, please do. Col. Grossman make the fire safety argument very well, and makes the case that our schools, towns, etc are simply in denial. Won't happen here, nope! If you're going to do something, do it right, has always been my philosophy. It's all in the presentation, with proper justification.

    Well secured lockbox or gun safe and an MP-5 is doing something right. Most shooters, with a little bit of training, will be more accurate (lot more accurate) with that weapon, then they'd be with a handgun. I've got a ton of experience with this weapon system, and know what I'm saying is true. I've seen people go from never fired a sub-gun in the morning, to being able to keep three round bursts on an 8 inch pie plate, while moving, by the afternoon.

    Again, it's all in the presentation. Take a group of school administrators out to a good range, demonstrate the accuracy and effectiveness to them, and let them shoot the guns. They'll be SOLD. Like Col. Grossman said in that article: "Don't call an unarmed security guard a security guard. Call him a run-like-hell-to-get-help guy" if he isn't armed. LOL I'd try to present an argument for the better weapons up front, demonstrating why, then to just accept that they won't buy off on it. Again, just my .02. Be safe.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Your biggest hurdle is liability and insurance. The easiest way to deal with that is get all your people certified as armed security. It'll still cost some money, but not as bad as trying to insure "some
    Dude with a gun" on school property.
    I agree on all points here. All I was really saying is that a better answer may take a while to figure out whilst treading on the slippery slopes of our system, including liabilities. It is not a cure-all but at least if the gun free zones were lifted there could be at least a chance, even if a small one, that something could be done at all. I am not saying that there would be no liability, it would just be an individual liability like it is now with concealed carriers. That would at least be a very small step that could be taken immediately. I don't know, this whole thing gives me a headache.
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    This will not fly in many parts of the country, and even in the south, I doubt this could be implemented at any more than a county level.

    Go for it though, guys. School days happen to coincide with work days, so there may be limited volunteers.

  12. #26
    Member Array Sturmruger's Avatar
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    @KBSR I did read the article it was excellent. I would love to have a long gun in the school if something like this went through, but that would be something to bring up down the road probably after the first year. There are a lot of "ifs" with this whole idea. I think the first thing I will do is see if I can talk to the Chief of Police in our town and see what he thinks about the idea.
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  13. #27
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    Just a thought, but wouldn't a CHL remove the need for a background check since the check is required to obtain the license (in Ohio anyway)?

  14. #28
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    What an awesome idea. I've been talking to my wife about doing the same thing in my daughters' schools. This is the answer to ending school shootings, not gun control. WE need to find a way to get this implemented... Anybody know a pro 2nd legislator with the courage to take up the cause?

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzyk View Post
    Just a thought, but wouldn't a CHL remove the need for a background check since the check is required to obtain the license (in Ohio anyway)?
    They will do a lot more than a regualr background check. Credit reports, possible drug and alchohol testing, interviews with possible candidates..........more.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  16. #30
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    At this time, any legislator would be hardpressed to support anything other than more ineffective gun control.
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