December 21st, 2012 04:11 PM
How do you really know? What is to say that one day they won't just snap?
Originally Posted by Jeanlouise
I have played violent Video Games since I was a kid (I am currently playing Borderlands 2 and it is VIOLENT!). I love slasher flicks, monster movies, action adventure films...
I like to think I am a pretty well adjusted, civil person, but what happens when one day a neuron misfires and I start thinking I am a golden god who needs to cleanse the earth? You can not regulate the ability of an American to play the games they want or watch the LEGAL movies they want.
I really think this comes more to parenting than anything else that is a controllable thing. Still and all, some people snap and how do you know when that "nice quiet guy that lived next door and was never a problem." will go nuts?
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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December 21st, 2012 04:12 PM
How did HIPPA laws cause this tragedy? The boy did not buy a gun. He got it from his mother. Look at all of these other mass shootings....How many of them woould have HIPPA or lack of, been prevented? I have looked back to 1985 of all the mass shootings and hardly any of them would have been prevented by HIPPA.
Originally Posted by Jeanlouise
I wish folks would get off of that band wagon.
There is one primary reason why this tragedy happened: the mother did not lock up her guns knowing her son was unstable
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”
December 21st, 2012 04:32 PM
Re: LaPierre's speech
I'm sorry, but I think the NRA missed a great opportunity to help the world understand its mission with regards to guns. Instead of trying to pass the blame onto violent media like video games and movies (which is not to blame), he should have been touting the NRA's commitment to safe and responsible gun ownership. He should have insisted that the NRA is on the side of the american public and not the enemy of safety and security for our children.
I also disagree with armed security in our schools for 2 reasons.
1. Our schools are already too much like prison. We're acclimating our children to life in locked down buildings with very little ability to move around. Metal detectors, school police officers, drug sniffing dogs, random searches, security gates. We are training our children to live under the control of the state.
2. Armed security can be known to the shooter and can make either a high priority target or a person to avoid. Lets face it, 1 armed security guard can only be in one place at a time. It would take just a few weeks of "casing" to determine the patterns of the guard and know when and where to strike to maximize damage before he can get there. And while having a gun on the campus is a significant improvement, making the shooter guess where and how many guns are on campus would be much greater deterrent. Isn't that the whole point to our argument for concealed carry in the first place? So that the criminal doesn't know who has the ability to stop him?
For these reasons I advocate allowing all administrators, teachers, and support personnel the option to carry concealed. Not in a locked drawer in their desk but on their person. Why couldn't the NRA not have suggested this? I believe that they want to appease people who believe the silly notion that a uniform somehow makes someone more qualified to carry a gun.This does not help our case that citizens with guns are the best deterrent of violent crime, not to mention our right to life by means of self-defense.
The NRA needs to man up and make a strong case for citizens with guns are our friends, not our enemies.
December 21st, 2012 04:51 PM
How many of these current measures are really about keeping the schools safe versus how many of them are about pure control?
Originally Posted by BWBracelets
While I agree with your position, I also think that too many consider (feel) this option is too radical. The NRA needs to walk a very fine line. Focus on what is possible and meaningful, while not giving cause to any politicians who may be on the fence to side with the antis.
For these reasons I advocate allowing all administrators, teachers, and support personnel the option to carry concealed. Not in a locked drawer in their desk but on their person. Why couldn't the NRA not have suggested this? ]
Also, for those who missed it, C-SPAN has the full video on their website (its about 32 minutes long).
December 21st, 2012 05:08 PM
We gun owners were well represented by the NRA.
I thought Mr. LaPierre handled himself extremely well.
I fully expect the media to twist everything he said, we'll see.
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December 21st, 2012 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by NMB
He's just using their logic against them. ;)
"I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza
December 21st, 2012 05:18 PM
I think he is a total jackass - with a really bad comb-over. he totally missed the point and suggested a solution that is even dumber than banning high capacity 'clips.' Putting armed guards in the schools -- only pirmary schools, only secondary schools, colleges and universities, in every building? Does he have the slightest idea how much traiing it would take and how many people it would take.
How did this jerk get to the position of EVP?
I think he totally missed that public opinion is SO much against guns that they are about to reinterprt the 2nd amendment and restict weapons to militia members.
He has totally wasted the ideosyncracy credit that the NRA might have had. His call for more guns is just plain stupid at this time.
He did mention the fact that the problem is not guns but mental health. But he didn't focus on it.
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Good health actually just means dying at the slowest possible rate.
December 21st, 2012 05:37 PM
A couple of points need to be clarified and restated:
1. "Kindergarten Killer" is not a game you can buy - it's over 10 years old and was never popular and for all intents and purposes it does not exist.
2. The killer did apparently play war games like Call of Duty, but the problem here wasn't the games, it was the fact that his mother left handguns, a Bushmaster, and a shotgun laying around where he could get his hands on them.
3. The mother frequently took her son, the killer, to shooting ranges for target practice. He allegedly went for practice to these ranges by himself, also.
4. If you are the parent of a deeply disturbed, mentally ill person, such that when you have to leave him you need a sitter, and your instructions to the minder are "never let him out of your sight," then you are violating firearms law by allowing him to access and operate firearms.
All of the blame for this tragedy falls on one person, and it's clear who that person is. The culprit wasn't "Hollywood," the President, gays, women, a "permissive" culture, lack of school prayer, liberals, media, or anything else except the person who allowed that disturbed kid access to firearms and ammunition, and failed to get him the mental health treatment he obviously needed.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
December 21st, 2012 05:38 PM
How about instead that the President, who never saw a tax he didn't like, tax the Hollywood stars, producers, directors, movie studios, video game companies, rappers, etc, etc, the 90% tax rate that the rich paid in the "good old days".
Originally Posted by OldVet
Then maybe the government can afford to implement the NRA proposal to have armed guards in every school.
To paraphrase the President, these people didn't get there on their own. They got there off of the blood of mass murder victims.
December 21st, 2012 05:44 PM
In a shooting, it is appropriate to mention the culture (movies and games). It is also appropriate to bring up firearm owners and guns. It is also appropriate to mention mental health.
Originally Posted by NMB
For example if a gunowner is careless or negligent with securing their firearms. If a parent does not supervise appropriate entertainment (best example is letting 7 year old play 1st person shooters with a mature rating for 8 hours every day). Somethings are for adults (like firearms and R rated movies), and somethings are for children and adults.
It is not blaming the firearms, movies, video games, mental health, etc. It is a relevant topic that while not at fault, is a component that should be mentioned.
The core issues are motive and means. So we have listed the means. What needs to happen now is the motive. The motive had to be attention, and in this case media attention. Far more relevant then gun control, how the media reports is far more concerning.
That is why I think what the NRA had to say today was important, but they did not state one important point. If the culture (saturation of violent media and entertainment with irresponsible reporting and lacked supervison) then safeguarding schools with armed guards needs to be considered.
I actually don't like the idea of arming teachers or having armed guards, but if the society / culture is going to be intolerant to the stewardship of teaching a moral norm, then the norm is exacerbating the violence, and armed guard may need to be the new norm.
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December 21st, 2012 06:05 PM
Did you even bother to read what I posted...twice! Obviously not.
Originally Posted by 357and40
Show me where I said the HIPAA laws caused this tragedy. The HIPAA laws have contributed to the difficulty of doctors and Health care workers communicating with each other, the courts, police etc. We've become so concerned with patient confidentiality that there is no way for mentally ill people to get any meaningful help. Everyone says "something should be done, why was this allowed to happen". Well, I'm telling you right now, there's NO WAY to prevent it unless the laws are revised and the HIPAA rules are rewritten so that hospitals, doctors, police, courts etc can communicate without being sued.
Originally Posted by suntzu
December 21st, 2012 06:15 PM
So many people seem to be taking this ^^^^ point of view. I do not see it as the same thing. A gun is an inanimate object. Movies, video games, etc...can and do incite emotion, and feelings. Surely exposure to certain types of images, and storylines over a long period of time may have an impact on the viewer/gamer. Now, lets be clear, I am NOT saying video games and movies are the sole cause of these type of killings. However, I do think that the general decline of civility in our society is a larger issue that does play a part. Not everyone can tell the difference between right and wrong. Not everyone is influenced equally by the same stimulus. What one person sees as fantasy, someone with mental illness may view in a way that leads to inappropriate responses (i.e. violence). The "gun control people" are irrational because they blame a piece of metal for human actions. Discussing the influence of movies or video games on societal behaviors hardly makes a person irrational.
Originally Posted by NMB
December 21st, 2012 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Enzo411
December 21st, 2012 06:28 PM
This is an outstanding post. I appreciate not only your clarity but your ability to address the subject so succintly.
Originally Posted by usmcj
December 21st, 2012 06:29 PM
Not so much HIPPA, rather HR 2640. Unless the "person" has been ADJUDICATED to be mentally incompetent, pertinent info cannot be passed.....
Originally Posted by Jeanlouise
...by the way.... many folks might interpret "meaningful help" as having the ability, or the insurance to pay for such help. Check your insurance coverage, and see if you're one of the lucky ones.
HR-2640 Section 3. (c)(1) IN GENERAL- No department or agency of the Federal Government may provide to the Attorney General any record of an adjudication related to the mental health of a person or any commitment of a person to a mental institution if--
(A) the adjudication or commitment, respectively, has been set aside or expunged, or the person has otherwise been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring;
(B) the person has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to no longer suffer from the mental health condition that was the basis of the adjudication or commitment, respectively, or has otherwise been found to be rehabilitated through any procedure available under law; or
(C) the adjudication or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without an opportunity for a hearing by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority, and the person has not been adjudicated as a mental defective consistent with section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, except that nothing in this section or any other provision of law shall prevent a Federal department or agency from providing to the Attorney General any record demonstrating that a person was adjudicated to be not guilty by reason of insanity, or based on lack of mental responsibility, or found incompetent to stand trial, in any criminal case or under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
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