LaPierre's speech

This is a discussion on LaPierre's speech within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by d2jlking This is an outstanding post. I appreciate not only your clarity but your ability to address the subject so succintly. Kind ...

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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    This is an outstanding post. I appreciate not only your clarity but your ability to address the subject so succintly.
    Kind words, sir, but I am not the author. As attributed, Mr. Marko Kloos (google "munchkin wrangler" ) is the talent behind this article.
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    usmcj...as a health care worker, what would you say to the question of this guy getting help? I asked one of my best friends the other day, she's been a Psychiatric nurse for years. She said now days...it's very hard. Unless a person has proven themselves to be violent or a danger to themselves, it's almost impossible to commit them for extended help if they don't want it.

    So, what do you do? People see the signs of an unstable personality...but there's very little we can do to stop it till it's too late. Prime example is Adam Lanza.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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    I just killed 353 Zombies on Black Ops II, and I have no desire to go shoot up the 'hood.....but I could see that if you were a little crazy, it may help you move closer to the edge.....freaking Zombies scare the
    crap out me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    We gun owners were well represented by the NRA.
    I thought Mr. LaPierre handled himself extremely well.
    I fully expect the media to twist everything he said, we'll see.
    Well...I could only stand it for a few minutes after the press conference because it was CNN, but they pretty much laser focused on his violent video games and movies comments. And it wasn't in a "maybe this is something we need to look at" kind of way so much as it was a "the NRA is trying to push the blame off of guns" kind of way. Big surprise that they would swing for the fences at the one softball being pitched at them.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    Kind words, sir, but I am not the author. As attributed, Mr. Marko Kloos (google "munchkin wrangler" ) is the talent behind this article.
    ha! Guess I missed that part. Regardless, very relevant post.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    usmcj...as a health care worker, what would you say to the question of this guy getting help? I asked one of my best friends the other day, she's been a Psychiatric nurse for years. She said now days...it's very hard. Unless a person has proven themselves to be violent or a danger to themselves, it's almost impossible to commit them for extended help if they don't want it.

    So, what do you do? People see the signs of an unstable personality...but there's very little we can do to stop it till it's too late. Prime example is Adam Lanza.
    Your nurse friend is correct. If a clinician, (usually two of them) witnesses the outburst, "or acting out", and can convince a judge that the "actor" is a threat to themselves or to others, then an EDO (emergency detention order) can be issued BY THE JUDGE. If memory serves, an EDO is good for only 72 hours. Absent an EDO, or an emergent situation, parents of a minor that is acting out can be forced to wait months for a simple appointment. To top that off, as I"ve posted elsewhere, many health insurance plans are very restrictive as to mental health coverage, if any. The danger (as I see it) in modifying the status quo, is that if a judgement is too easily made, referrals can be used, and or abused much too conveniently, without true cause. There are a series of screening questions that your nurse friend can detail for you that are beginning to be asked of more patients... have you thought about hurting yourself, hurting others?.... and like that. Most folks, even if the question applies, will lie. I'm a firm believer that any attempt to regulate or mandate periodic psych evaluations would be a gross violation of civil rights. That in itself makes identifying a potential MCI (mass casualty incident) perpetrator very difficult.
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    So many people seem to be taking this ^^^^ point of view. I do not see it as the same thing. A gun is an inanimate object. Movies, video games, etc...can and do incite emotion, and feelings.
    I'll get flamed, and if we had a dislike button I'd get 10,000 against me on this site, but let's think a tad
    about how certain gun designs, appearance, evoke or incite emotions every bit as much as a movie.

    There is a reason that my first Marlin semi -auto 22lr " kid's" rifle looked a certain way, whereas today Academy
    as one example sells both paintball and real starter rifles dressed up to look similar to a military battle rifle (carefully
    avoiding the AR terminology).

    Appearance of inanimate objects do evoke emotions, and we all know that is true
    from the many times when we have bought such things as cars, trucks, tablets, or a business suit, or maybe when we bought a
    variety of shotty that sort of looked "tacticool" even though it functioned exactly as a plain Jane 870 with a long barrel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Appearance of inanimate objects do evoke emotions even and we all know that
    from the many times when we have bought such things as cars, trucks, tablets, or a business suit. Or maybe a
    variety of shotty that sort of looked "tacticool" even though it functioned exactly as a plain Jane 870 with a long
    barrel.
    agreed, but the difference is that mature rational, adults, and children that have taught well, recognize the difference between "tacticool" and "tactical". Those who have primarily been exposed to only "tacticool" may well be hard pressed to differentiate between the two..... in video games, or in real life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    Your nurse friend is correct. If a clinician, (usually two of them) witnesses the outburst, "or acting out", and can convince a judge that the "actor" is a threat to themselves or to others, then an EDO (emergency detention order) can be issued BY THE JUDGE. If memory serves, an EDO is good for only 72 hours. Absent an EDO, or an emergent situation, parents of a minor that is acting out can be forced to wait months for a simple appointment. To top that off, as I"ve posted elsewhere, many health insurance plans are very restrictive as to mental health coverage, if any. The danger (as I see it) in modifying the status quo, is that if a judgement is too easily made, referrals can be used, and or abused much too conveniently, without true cause. There are a series of screening questions that your nurse friend can detail for you that are beginning to be asked of more patients... have you thought about hurting yourself, hurting others?.... and like that. Most folks, even if the question applies, will lie. I'm a firm believer that any attempt to regulate or mandate periodic psych evaluations would be a gross violation of civil rights. That in itself makes identifying a potential MCI (mass casualty incident) perpetrator very difficult.
    Also, the problem with questions like that one is that thoughts are just that, thoughts in your mind. They may
    never be acted upon, there may be no intent behind the thought. Have you ever thought of cheating on your
    spouse? It is just a thought and is of no importance unless you are in fact engaging in some act which might
    enable you to cheat, or you are actually cheating. Thoughts don't count; or at least they shouldn't. We all have thoughts
    that would shame the devil. (Mark Twain)
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    LaPierre's speech

    1. Mentally ill people are less likely to commit crimes than the non-mentally-ill.

    2. I cannot believe how many people on this forum are ready to accept armed government agents in every school in this country, whether from a budgetary point of view or a "freedom" point of view.

    3. I cannot believe how many people on this forum turn out to have so little real tactical knowledge/experience that they can imagine a security guard who could be effective against a suicidal killer—especially one who would know there was a guard waiting who would need to be taken out first. That's a decidedly different scenario from the possibility that an unknown number of teachers might have a concealed weapon.

    4. There was a deputy assigned to a little school called Columbine.

    5. The NRA has pretty much just flushed down the toilet whatever shreds remained of its ability to contribute to whatever happens next.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I'll get flamed, and if we had a dislike button I'd get 10,000 against me on this site, but let's think a tad
    about how certain gun designs, appearance, evoke or incite emotions every bit as much as a movie.

    There is a reason that my first Marlin semi -auto 22lr " kid's" rifle looked a certain way, whereas today Academy
    as one example sells both paintball and real starter rifles dressed up to look similar to a military battle rifle (carefully
    avoiding the AR terminology).

    Appearance of inanimate objects do evoke emotions, and we all know that is true
    from the many times when we have bought such things as cars, trucks, tablets, or a business suit, or maybe when we bought a
    variety of shotty that sort of looked "tacticool" even though it functioned exactly as a plain Jane 870 with a long barrel.
    Actually, you are right. However, it's my personal belief that the reason those paintball guns and starter rifles look similiar to a battle rifle is because that's what kids who play battle type video games and who watch action/shooter movies want. It's what they've seen their heroes use to slay the bad guys both in cinematic and digital mediums. Heck, when I was a kid I wanted a six shooter and holster like the Lone Ranger. That guy was awesome! That's also what toy guns looked like. They fit the popular imagery. Just as an AR, AK, etc...fits the popular imagery now. Also, while your list of inanimate objects can of course evoke emotion, interactive video games, and movies touch people on an intellectual level. Video games are made to be as real as possible. Movies create empathy with characters. Complex, conscious and subconscious reactions to imagery, sound, and story lines are more involved then merely seeing an object a person wants to buy or own. Not to mention the actual amount of time that kids spend playing these games and watching TV/Movies is significant. Please, don't misunderstand, I do NOT blame video games for the recent shooting. I do think that our kids are desensitized to violence because IN PART because of video games and TV/Movies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    The danger (as I see it) in modifying the status quo, is that if a judgement is too easily made, referrals can be used, and or abused much too conveniently, without true cause. There are a series of screening questions that your nurse friend can detail for you that are beginning to be asked of more patients... have you thought about hurting yourself, hurting others?.... and like that. Most folks, even if the question applies, will lie. I'm a firm believer that any attempt to regulate or mandate periodic psych evaluations would be a gross violation of civil rights. That in itself makes identifying a potential MCI (mass casualty incident) perpetrator very difficult.
    I agree. There's a good reason for the laws because there was a lot of abuse of mental institutions, patients and even people who had become inconvenient to their families but weren't mentally ill. So, the laws that protect people from abuse are also the laws that make it difficult, if not impossible to identify and treat the mentally ill...especially if they don't want the help.

    So, let's just admit that "they" won't be getting a handle on stuff like this anytime soon. Expect another crazy to do something similar as soon as he decides the time is right.

    I don't see how you stop it but if someone does, please let us know. People only get help after the crime, not before.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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  14. #73
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    Actually, you are right. However, it's my personal belief that the reason those paintball guns and starter rifles look similiar to a battle rifle is because that's what kids who play battle type video games and who watch action/shooter movies want.
    Valid point sir, but now I revert to... "my sons got pretty much everything they needed..... but not always what they wanted." My sons were allowed to play "war", but the games did double duty as a training tool. Tough to substitute for parenting.
    d2jlking likes this.
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  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    I don't see how you stop it but if someone does, please let us know. People only get help after the crime, not before.
    some thoughts.....

    Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew
    the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes
    when they thought the victim might be armed.

    Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear
    being shot.

    Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries”

    which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the
    U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%.

    Fact: Washington D.C. has essentially banned gun ownership since 1976 and has a murder rate
    of 56.9 per 100,000. Across the river in Arlington, Virginia, gun ownership is less restricted.
    There, the murder rate is just 1.6 per 100,000, less than three percent of the Washington, D.C.
    rate.

    Fact: 26% of all retail businesses report keeping a gun on the premises for crime control.

    Fact: In 1982, Kennesaw, GA passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one
    firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate dropped 89% the following year.

    Fact: A survey of felons revealed the following:

    • 74% of felons agreed that, "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is
    that they fear being shot during the crime."
    • 57% of felons polled agreed, "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim
    than they are about running into the police."
    source http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...6_1_screen.pdf ... page 20
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  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    some thoughts.....



    source http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...6_1_screen.pdf ... page 20
    You won't get any argument from me!

    Now, if we can just convince the people who think guns cause crime all by themselves.
    Darrow75 likes this.
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