Student resistance if attacked

This is a discussion on Student resistance if attacked within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Preacherman posted this on THR but it is an interesting read. reminiscent of the approach made by Flight 93 passengers. For sure - do NOT ...

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Thread: Student resistance if attacked

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    Student resistance if attacked

    Preacherman posted this on THR but it is an interesting read. reminiscent of the approach made by Flight 93 passengers.

    For sure - do NOT aquiesce to demands by a gunman - an overwhelming attack of resistance can be be effective IMO. For sure better than cowering to wait for a bullet. Many young folks are very strong and agile too.

    From ENC Today

    (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT)

    Oct 13, 2:42 PM EDT

    Texas School Tells Classes to Fight Back

    By JEFF CARLTON
    Associated Press Writer

    BURLESON, Texas (AP) -- Youngsters in a suburban Fort Worth school district are being taught not to sit there like good boys and girls with their hands folded if a gunman invades the classroom, but to rush him and hit him with everything they got - books, pencils, legs and arms.

    "Getting under desks and praying for rescue from professionals is not a recipe for success," said Robin Browne, a major in the British Army reserve and an instructor for Response Options, the company providing the training to the Burleson schools.

    That kind of fight-back advice is all but unheard of among schools, and some fear it will get children killed.

    But school officials in Burleson said they are drawing on the lessons learned from a string of disasters such as Columbine in 1999 and the Amish schoolhouse attack in Pennsylvania last week.

    The school system in this working-class suburb of about 26,000 is believed to be the first in the nation to train all its teachers and students to fight back, Browne said.

    At Burleson - which has 10 schools and about 8,500 students - the training covers various emergencies, such as tornadoes, fires and situations where first aid is required. Among the lessons: Use a belt as a sling for broken bones, and shoelaces make good tourniquets.

    Students are also instructed not to comply with a gunman's orders, and to take him down.

    Browne recommends students and teachers "react immediately to the sight of a gun by picking up anything and everything and throwing it at the head and body of the attacker and making as much noise as possible. Go toward him as fast as we can and bring them down."

    Response Options trains students and teachers to "lock onto the attacker's limbs and use their body weight," Browne said. Everyday classroom objects, such as paperbacks and pencils, can become weapons.

    "We show them they can win," he said. "The fact that someone walks into a classroom with a gun does not make them a god. Five or six seventh-grade kids and a 95-pound art teacher can basically challenge, bring down and immobilize a 200-pound man with a gun."

    The fight-back training parallels the change in thinking that has occurred since Sept. 11, when United Flight 93 made it clear that the usual advice during a hijacking - Don't try to be a hero, and no one will get hurt - no longer holds. Flight attendants and passengers are now encouraged to rush the cockpit.

    Similarly, women and youngsters are often told by safety experts to kick, scream and claw they way out during a rape attempt or a child-snatching.

    In 1998 in Oregon, a 17-year-old high school wrestling star with a bullet in his chest stopped a rampage by tackling a teenager who had opened fire in the cafeteria. The gunman killed two students, as well as his parents, and 22 other were wounded.

    Hilda Quiroz of the National School Safety Center, a nonprofit advocacy group in California, said she knows of no other school system in the country that is offering fight-back training, and found the strategy at Burleson troubling.

    "If kids are saved, then this is the most wonderful thing in the world. If kids are killed, people are going to wonder who's to blame," she said. "How much common sense will a student have in a time of panic?"

    Terry Grisham, spokesman for the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department, said he, too, had concerns, though he had not seen details of the program.

    "You're telling kids to do what a tactical officer is trained to do, and they have a lot of guns and ballistic shields," he said. "If my school was teaching that, I'd be upset, frankly."

    Some students said they appreciate the training.

    "It's harder to hit a moving target than a target that is standing still," said 14-year-old Jessica Justice, who received the training over the summer during freshman orientation at Burleson High.

    William Lassiter, manager of the North Carolina-based Center for Prevention of School Violence, said past attacks indicate that fighting back, at least by teachers and staff, has its merits.

    "At Columbine, teachers told students to get down and get on the floors, and gunmen went around and shot people on the floors," Lassiter said. "I know this sounds chaotic and I know it doesn't sound like a great solution, but it's better than leaving them there to get shot."

    Lassiter questioned, however, whether students should be included in the fight-back training: "That's going to scare the you-know-what out of them."

    Most of the freshman class at Burleson's high school underwent instruction during orientation, and eventually all Burleson students will receive some training, even the elementary school children.

    "We want them to know if Miss Valley says to run out of the room screaming, that is exactly what they need to do," said Jeanie Gilbert, district director of emergency management. She said students and teachers should have "a fighting chance in every situation."

    "It's terribly sad that when I get up in the morning that I have to wonder what may happen today either in our area or in the nation," Gilbert said. "Something that happens in Pennsylvania has that ripple effect across the country."

    Burleson High Principal Paul Cash said he has received no complaints from parents about the training. Stacy Vaughn, the president of the Parent-Teacher Organization at Norwood Elementary in Burleson, supports the program.

    "I feel like our kids should be armed with the information that these types of possibilities exist," Vaughn said.
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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    "Getting under desks and praying for rescue from professionals is not a recipe for success."
    Simple.
    Profound.
    And LOST on 99% of our population, it seems like.

    We need to get this word out loud, far and wide.

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    William Lassiter, manager of the North Carolina-based Center for Prevention of School Violence, said past attacks indicate that fighting back, at least by teachers and staff, has its merits.

    "At Columbine, teachers told students to get down and get on the floors, and gunmen went around and shot people on the floors," Lassiter said. "I know this sounds chaotic and I know it doesn't sound like a great solution, but it's better than leaving them there to get shot."
    Hear hear, Mr. Lassiter!

    Lassiter questioned, however, whether students should be included in the fight-back training: "That's going to scare the you-know-what out of them."
    But, um, Mr. Lassiter, isn't having the "you-know-what" scared out of them better than them being SHOT like CATTLE?

    If the students aren't involved, we're back to it being one-on-one between a 105 lb. female English teacher who can't even change a shower head and an armed, 185 lb. attacker.

    How did this guy go from being a genius in one sentence to an abject MORON in the next?!

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    In these days of and other PC movements, I'm surprised that someone isn't being fired over that training. It just makes too much sense for most of these idiots to sit still for.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    Good point, rstickle. Let's hope it gains momentum, though, and that the common sense that WE'VE never LOST ends up RETURNING to the rest of the people!

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    It's nice to see that someone, somewhere, FINALLY figured it out. This type of program should be taught in every school throughout the nation.

    Kudos to the Burleson school system for throwing out the "PC rulebook" and doing something cutting edge to help secure their schools.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

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    Sounds good to me, I guess my "home schooling "self defense will have to work for my kids.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    This is the correct time and place to stop glorifying victiminization.
    One should never confuse good fortune with good training.
    Illegitimus Non Carborundum.
    In God we trust.

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    Its hard to say, and prob going to be misunderstood , but I would feel better if my kids ( now my grandkid(s) ) got killed fighting back instead of cowering under a table or desk . IMHO as jeff cooper said violent criminals must be met with force no matter the cost.
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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    Lassiter questioned, however, whether students should be included in the fight-back training: "That's going to scare the you-know-what out of them."

    Yes they will be scared. But I guarantee they will also be scared hiding under their decks hoping they will not be executed.

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    Lassiter questioned, however, whether students should be included in the fight-back training: "That's going to scare the you-know-what out of them."

    Yes they will be scared. But I guarantee they will also be scared hiding under their desks hoping they will not be executed. Part of their training should be to warn them that they will be scared but to resist in spite of and in the face of their fear. Then hopeful if the worst does happen they won't be paralyzed because of their fear.

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    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    Its hard to say, and prob going to be misunderstood , but I would feel better if my kids ( now my grandkid(s) ) got killed fighting back instead of cowering under a table or desk . IMHO as jeff cooper said violent criminals must be met with force no matter the cost.

    My thoughts exacetly Red. I have 2 boys, one 4 yrs old and one 5 mos old. They will grow up with the proper understanding of self-defense. Should either one ever have to face a situation such as those in the news recently, I fully expect them to do whatever it takes to fight back. Giving in is NOT an option.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

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