So Much For Obamacare Will Have No Effect On Our Military - Page 2

So Much For Obamacare Will Have No Effect On Our Military

This is a discussion on So Much For Obamacare Will Have No Effect On Our Military within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by DoctorBob This has nothing to do with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. It is separate legislation. And the same insurance ...

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Thread: So Much For Obamacare Will Have No Effect On Our Military

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    This has nothing to do with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. It is separate legislation.
    And the same insurance companies don't cover both groups,passing on costs?
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow247 View Post
    Sorry to say, but the gravy train is coming to an end. While I am sympathetic to our service members, I have little sympathy for someone who buys what the government is selling. We simply can not continue the level of spending in ALL areas of government, this includes the military.
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  3. #18
    Member Array nmbr5ml's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow247 View Post
    Sorry to say, but the gravy train is coming to an end. While I am sympathetic to our service members, I have little sympathy for someone who buys what the government is selling. We simply can not continue the level of spending in ALL areas of government, this includes the military.
    I'd guess it would make more sense to stop building main battle tanks, fighters and bombers for which we have no use, before we start cutting into benefits for retirees. Yes doing this would have a Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics/pick your defense contractor lobbyist on Capitol Hill, threatening to lay off 60,000 workers, but these things aren't being used, if they're needed for use there is a massive stockpile of them and we aren't exporting them. We are literally building main battle tanks and bombers just to keep defense contractors in business and workers employed.

    I can't speak for everyone, but I was 9 years into a nice, easy career in the military, got to run, jump, shoot, get paid to work out, see the world, etc.... Then in late 2001 that all changed. I could complain about what it cost me to continue serving as long as I did, being gone about 270 days a year for the last 11 years, getting shot at a few times a week, catching some filthy *******'s filthy bullet with my right leg once, going back to the base to sleep and having it rain mortar/rocket fire on occasion, crashing helos, crashing light fixed-wing planes, having to worry about getting shocked to death in the shower, yeah, I could complain. I won't because I volunteered. I won't because I saw so many dudes give so much more. I won't because I signed a contract, and simply lived up to the terms of that contract. Everyone knows some loser who joined the military, didn't make it anywhere, didn't accomplish anything, scraped paint on a destroyer until they got caught smoking weed and booted, etc. Maybe this is who they think of when being so flippant about "entitlements". I really wouldn't know. These days, as often as not, the military guy you meet has seen things you wouldn't want to imagine. Has all kinds of little aches and pains from years of sacrificing his body. Has headaches because, for some reason, combat vets get headaches.

    The pension you get when you retire, either medically or after 20+ years, is not exactly handsome. Legislators talk about it as though it's very generous, 50% of your salary after only 20 years. That "salary" is only a portion of what you're paid in the Armed Forces. If it was all we got we'd (almost) all be dirt poor. So the 50% of it only adds up to around $20K-30K a year pre-tax for your average retiree. The real benefit you get is a very reasonable health plan for you and your family. It's not free, nor is it close to free. It varies on what plan you choose, but our plan is comparable to what my wife would get if she used her employer's health plan, but her employer's plan is more inclusive, covers many things Tricare does not. We just don't pay a premium, so it saves us a couple thousand a year to use Tricare.

    With the pensions and benefits we offer to others (you guys can guess who I'm talking about...don't want to unfairly single anyone out) it seems unreasonable to cut back on what is already a pretty limited benefits package for guys who have to sacrifice so much and um.... oh yeah, it's needed. All you guys out there, from the president to the street cop to the people you see on reality shows to the idiots in the media, need these guys to keep going out there and doing the job. Now that I'm retired, so do I.

    You probably wouldn't tell your wife "Hey I know we have to eat and all to survive but food is just too expensive. Don't buy any more groceries."

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow247 View Post
    Sorry to say, but the gravy train is coming to an end. While I am sympathetic to our service members, I have little sympathy for someone who buys what the government is selling. We simply can not continue the level of spending in ALL areas of government, this includes the military.
    I will not mention my own medical problems but my brother in law was Oranged and now has diabetes and peripheral nerve problems, I have a friend in our coin club who left part of his right arm in RVN and still takes meds for PTSD. If you want to see how much of a gravy train veterans have just stop by any VVA, VFW, or American Legion chapter and talk to some of the vets and see just how good they have it. Oh and VVA stands for Viet Nam Veterans of America and VFW stands for Veterans of Foreign Wars.
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  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulle46 View Post
    And the same insurance companies don't cover both groups,passing on costs?
    I am we'll aware of that. You call it what you want, I'll continue to call it Obamacare as do most Americans.
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  6. #21
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    I would also suggest that keboostman and shadow247 should visit the nearest VA hospital and see all the guys that are riding the "Gravy Train" or better yet the ones that rode the Gravy Train and are now resting in the local VA cemetery. Naw, bad suggestion, I don't think a visit to the VA, VFW, VVA or any other veterans organizations would go well for them based on their comments.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow247 View Post
    Sorry to say, but the gravy train is coming to an end. While I am sympathetic to our service members, I have little sympathy for someone who buys what the government is selling. We simply can not continue the level of spending in ALL areas of government, this includes the military.
    OUCH! I will not comment. But I will ask that you become better informed on what it takes to 'earn' those benifits, compared to a GS-15 at NASA who needs two Contracters to make sure that he/she does not make a fool of the themselve during the presentation of 'science'.

    Get a clue! The Military is actually one place in federal spending ~ 20% that is efficient and does not screw the rest of us........... Want to argue that?

    Your turn, Sir............. Go for it........... LOL at you. (seriously, drink some wine, read a little, read some more and become better informed).
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  8. #23
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    Everyone says Social Security is the 3d Rail of Politics....................... NOT. Some of us store just enough ammon and fire wood to survive the winter, without the big Socialist Govt...........

    The true Third Rails of Politics are Veterans Affairs and 2A!

    To all you LEO out there. Does every department make you swear an oath to the US Constitution? Just asking...........

    Regardless of the discussion, peace to everyone, and never sit with your back to the door..... eh?
    Jeanlouise and Spirit51 like this.
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    While I haven't served in the military, I have been surrounded by close friends and family that have, so I still have very strong opinions on the subject. I don't really have anything to add that hasn't been said by dukalmighty, mulle46,etc. So all I'll add is a heartfelt thanks to all the veterans for putting your life on the line with many sleepless nights so that I can sleep safe at home.
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  10. #25
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    Shadow247,

    As someone who spent 20 years in the Navy, 14 of that on sea duty, I take offense to your comment that I am on a gravy train. It is obvious that you have never left for a deployment 5 days BEFORE your first child was born and come home when they were almost a year old, deployed on your wife's birthday, missed countless Christmas's, birthdays, and anniversaries, etc.

    You are severely mistaken if you think that any of our military members (Active, Retired, Disabled) did not earn the benefits that they are receiving. How about you go down to your nearest MEPS station, raise your right hand, swear an oath to defend the Constitution, and walk a mile in their shoes. Otherwise do us all a favor and keep quiet about things which you obviously have no first-hand experience.
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  11. #26
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    My husband retired from the AF after 23 years of service. When he was drafted the Viet Nam war was going on so he had the "pleasure" of going there toward the end. We've moved countless times and I spent many months alone raising 3 kids.

    His retirement is miniscule because as nmbr5mil pointed out, much of a service members pay during their service is not only "base pay", it's things like "combat pay", "flight pay" etc. Base pay is very little, and that's what your retirement is based on.

    We have a lot of neighbors who have retired from GM in our neighborhood. They are the same age my husband. They play golf, own boats etc and have a great retired life. My husband works as a Contractor at an Army base about 50 minutes away because he HAS to, not because he loves working full time. He isn't quite old enough for SS or to start pulling from our 401k's.

    I just have to laugh when I hear about our military and the "gravy train". In any other work place the employees would be suing for work place abuse, want their salary tripled and strike for better benefits.

    There is so much fraud and waste in the government, it would be easy to find a couple of billion to cut immediately. I'd like to suggest the President stop funding his buddies in the green energy boondoggle. 9 billion wasted on Solyndra alone, and what do we have to show for it? That was just one company, there are many more like "Lightsquared" that went under too.
    Medicade is one big abuse of the system. We could cut that down by 50% and still provide good healthcare but of course that won't happen. No, we're about to unleash Obamacare which will be Medicade on steroids.

    Going for more coffee and maybe I'll slam my head against the wall in frustration for a few minutes too.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to say that my older sister's husband was killed in Viet Nam, he never got to use his Tricare benefits.
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  12. #27
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    Sorry folks, I look at this raise in rates and think this is NOTHING! When I went into the Army (1964) I was "promised" FREE medical care for me and my spouse for life if I stayed till retirement. I was STILL "promised" that when I retired (1985). Imagine my SURPRISE when TRICARE made it's appearance. Now to me, that's a royal screwing!! The rate increases are just a mild continuation.

    P.S. The only gravy I saw was at Thanksgiving and Christmas at the mess hall, or one of those field food containers (sometimes), and it wasn't all that good... Just seemed that way by comparison.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Sorry folks, I look at this raise in rates and think this is NOTHING! When I went into the Army (1964) I was "promised" FREE medical care for me and my spouse for life if I stayed till retirement. I was STILL "promised" that when I retired (1985). Imagine my SURPRISE when TRICARE made it's appearance. Now to me, that's a royal screwing!! The rate increases are just a mild continuation.

    P.S. The only gravy I saw was at Thanksgiving and Christmas at the mess hall, or one of those field food containers (sometimes), and it wasn't all that good... Just seemed that way by comparison.
    awwww....good old mermites! The food was actually pretty good. I remember breakfast at Jump School being brought out in those and eating in the rain (coould not eat in the hut weat you got rigged)
    1283276466-mermite.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Sorry folks, I look at this raise in rates and think this is NOTHING! When I went into the Army (1964) I was "promised" FREE medical care for me and my spouse for life if I stayed till retirement. I was STILL "promised" that when I retired (1985). Imagine my SURPRISE when TRICARE made it's appearance. Now to me, that's a royal screwing!! The rate increases are just a mild continuation. P.S. The only gravy I saw was at Thanksgiving and Christmas at the mess hall, or one of those field food containers (sometimes), and it wasn't all that good... Just seemed that way by comparison.
    Here, here! I grew fond of mermited turkey and gravy, or was it chili-mac, it sometimes looked the same!

    And to Mr Gravy Train...

    When I enlisted, medical care was part of the "deal" made for serving 20+ years. It was the same for a couple of years after I received my commission. In the 26 years I spent in uniform, I saw the medical benefits go from free for retirees, to the "wonderful" CHAMPUS coverage, to TRICARE. Not a fun evolution. So, I for one, throw the BS flag when someone tells me about this supposed gravy train I'm riding...Oh and Mr Gravy Train, because I retired, I am still carried on the inactive roles, subject to recall, retirees are still subject to UCMJ, and our pension is only a pension under administrative definition of the IRS. Officially, retired pay is just that, under statute, it is defined as "reduced pay for reduced responsibilities." So, Mr Gravy Train, how about taking a deep breath, and not opening your pie hole until you do some research.
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    It sounds like the main issue here is the cost of the drugs. Really if the drugs were cheaper, then it wouldn't matter as much. Unfortunately, we live in a society where the 'cheapening' of drugs can take a long time. Universities have to discover the drugs while struggling with their incentives being not quite the same as the patients'. Then we have the Valley of Death for product development, then we need to wait 20 years for the patent to expire so the Big Pharma can get compensated for their tremendous costs of running the large scale clinical trials. The only true way of reducing the costs under this system is to get the drugs discovered more quickly.

    The irony here is that my impression is that the VA is allowed to negotiate drug prices with Big Pharma and uses their very large purchasing power effectively to get a really good deal (makes sense, right?). Bush's Medicare D specifically prevented the right for Medicare to negotiate and forces the purchase to be at market price. In order to get Obamacare passed, they had to maintain this 'deal'. So, while the copays are one thing, the cost to the taxpayer is another.
    The only acceptable long-term outcome is to find a cure. It's an actual solution, requiring forward-thinking efforts.

    Until then, we're just arguing about who's pushing who.


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