Tradegy in the making..... - Page 2

Tradegy in the making.....

This is a discussion on Tradegy in the making..... within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Echo_Four We'd be up in arms if the OP was a physician stating that he was worried about a gun being in ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    We'd be up in arms if the OP was a physician stating that he was worried about a gun being in the home and followed the items in Obama's plan to keep guns out of the hands of people with mental issues. A physician that has taken courses in psychiatric care, rotated through various mental health situations as a student and resident, and has a decent grasp of what is going on. However a post from someone far less qualified (I assume) and we're all saying that there will be a tragic end to this.

    Seems as if we want things to work both ways at our convenience.
    Not me, Echo_Four. I don't object to individuals' opinions - qualified or not. It's the collective force to which I object: the arbitrary collection of all sufferers of mental illness, which 1 in 4 Americans experience some time in their life, into the category of those lacking the social responsibility to refrain from violence and, further, as if by due process, denying all such persons their Constitutional right to the protection of the Second Amendment. The plan is to use doctors as government surrogates under financial and professional duress. That's what I'm "up in arms" about.
    We have among some of our families people of special needs who don't have the same inhibitions (limits) on violence that we normal folks have. They may have episodic violence. I don't have an answer because some people that need help and their caregivers don't know or don't ask. I can't blame them because it's very difficult to raise a special-needs person.
    I suspect that the answer shall come in terms of individual cases and personal responsibility and not by government management or legislation.
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    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    This is the quandry. Could someone who is in denial that they have an out of control child with issues be trusted enough to take adequate precautions when keeping firearms away from said individual? The thought of a child with the apparent problems this one has getting access to a firearm has me concerned. It looks like a bad thing waiting to happen.

    We as legal gun owners would want her to legally own a gun, but if she cannot be responsible with it and keep it away from Junior, then it's a problem. I for one would not want to see her take the chance in getting one if she is not willing to admit her son may have problems.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaRedneck View Post
    Is she is a responsible gun owner then it should not be a problem.
    YES - Its called a safe.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

  4. #19
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    She has no right to self defense! I have spoken!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MACC12 View Post
    She has an eight year old son whom I believe, and others too, to have a case of autism.
    And so it begins...

    As a parent of a child diagnosed with Autism. I can tell you with solid conviction, having interacted with many autistic kids, autistic children are NOT typically violent like you describe. The only cases where they tend to be violent is in cases where they are unable to speak and they become frustrated and act out. By unable to speak, I mean they physically are unable to speak. The Sandy Hook shooter was not autistic. He may have had asperger's syndrome, but aspergers syndrome is not autism.

    Additionally, Aspergers children are also not, by nature, violent. In fact, quite the opposite. They are usually NOT violent.

    The child may be a sociopath, but definitely not autistic.

    Autism is typically diagnosed before the age of 5 as a result of a lack of development of speech and social interaction. Autistic children tend to "exist in their own world" oblivious to the outside world. They tend to be unable to develop normal speech patterns because they lack the ability to view the world from the perspective of others and lack the ability to read facial expressions.

    Some typical behaviors of severe autism include the complete inability to communicate in any way with people. See:

    In My Language - YouTube

    That is a video created by an autistic woman who is unable to speak.

    Typical behaviors of moderate autism include:

    The inability to point to objects they want (I know this sounds weird... but it's a development milestone).
    Echolalia - Echolalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Repetitive behavior - Self-Stimulatory Behavior | Autism Research Institute
    Lack of eye contact - Autism Symptoms Eye Contact - All About Autism Symptoms and Eye Contact

    Quote Originally Posted by MACC12 View Post
    Her son is very violent and has been expelled by daycare professionals because of his abusive nature. He has punched, kicked and bitten teachers and other children and tried to push one of his cousins down the stairs. He does not interact with other children well and tends to play by himself. She has been told many times by professionals that her son needs to be tested but she always says he is just misunderstood or bored. I am not a doctor by any means or able to diagnose serious conditions but other people have made the same observations that something is not right.

    I hope I am wrong but I feel that this will make the news someday.
    Does the kid need help? Yep, sounds like he does.

    Does he have autism? Very unlikely.

    Should they have a gun in the meantime?

    Well, 8 yrs old... if it's locked up... might not be an issue... but in the future? It might. I would seek help first.

    Here's the sad part:

    Unless they have insurance, they'll be paying for any help out of pocket. There is no help for parents of children who are violent or even mentally ill until the child commits a crime.

    See: 'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother': A Mom's Perspective On The Mental Illness Conversation In America

    THIS... THIS... is what I would like to see the NRA or the federal Government taking action on...

    If the NRA developed a comprehensive mental health aide program for it's members and their children, I'd join in a heartbeat and give them money every year.

    BTW, for those of you who will spout off about your political agenda about people looking for handouts and how the federal government shouldn't be involved in such things, save it. Mental illness happens to people from all walks of life. No one chooses to be mentally ill. It would help all of us, gun owners and non gun owners, and is better than blaming the guns OR the video games.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    Refusing to acknowledge or get help for their child when there is an obvious problem defines an irresponsible parent. I understand how it may be very difficult to get help or admit there is a problem, but failing to do so shows lack of responsibility. When someone doesn't recognize the problem, how are they suppose to recognize that maybe access to a gun is going to be a bigger problem.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

  7. #22
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    I appreciate all the responses. I hope she takes the appropriate measures to keep everyone safe.
    “Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln

  8. #23
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    A few members mention that keeping the gun in a proper safe will end the possible tragedy. OK, I agree with that to a point but what happens when the mother leaves that gun unattended for just one minute with the child in the room or totally forgets to return it to the safe after whatever reason drove her to remove it? That child would most likely have been aware of the gun prior to that point or even worse, has just discovered that mom has a gun and curiosity takes over.

  9. #24
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    That is exactly what I fear DC.
    “Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln

  10. #25
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    Ill be the first to say it. And probably wont be popular for it. But here goes. Firearm in her control is no issue for the child. Safe no safe period. You dont have to have a safe to keep a firearm in your control from a child.

    Second Add Autism etc are way over diagnosed as a excuse for parents not parenting and that includes warming up the seat of the pants when this child does this stuff.

    True Autism needs to be treated. ADD in most cases is simply a parent that wont take the trouble to teach a child discipline.
    I would guess and probably pretty correctly that when this parent says do this or dont that or give this the child pretty much ignores the parent. See it all the time.
    Problem isnt the gun or presence of one. And if the parent is better at keeping control of the gun that she is control of her child then the gun wont be a problem. The child probably will be and likely grow up to be worse.
    Ok Ive dunked behind my bunker. Flame away lol

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Ill be the first to say it. And probably wont be popular for it. But here goes. Firearm in her control is no issue for the child. Safe no safe period. You dont have to have a safe to keep a firearm in your control from a child.

    Second Add Autism etc are way over diagnosed as a excuse for parents not parenting and that includes warming up the seat of the pants when this child does this stuff.

    True Autism needs to be treated. ADD in most cases is simply a parent that wont take the trouble to teach a child discipline.
    I would guess and probably pretty correctly that when this parent says do this or dont that or give this the child pretty much ignores the parent. See it all the time.
    Problem isnt the gun or presence of one. And if the parent is better at keeping control of the gun that she is control of her child then the gun wont be a problem. The child probably will be and likely grow up to be worse.
    Ok Ive dunked behind my bunker. Flame away lol
    No flaming here, a gun under the control of someone with good senses is non issue. I believe some include "Maintain Control of your firearm" as a gun basic rule. The issue is a parent that does not recognize mental health issues or refuses to acknowledge mental health issues in their child, in my mind, is irresponsible. If that irresponsibility is translated to leaving a gun OUT of her control, then major issues are likely to develop.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

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