Junior Seau's family sues - Page 2

Junior Seau's family sues

This is a discussion on Junior Seau's family sues within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by WHEC724 The only thing new is the notion that nobody is to blame for their own circumstance - they can always blame ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    The only thing new is the notion that nobody is to blame for their own circumstance - they can always blame someone else. The precedent is set from the top down.

    Risk/Reward is an ancient concept that every generation (up until ours) has understood.
    Yup. Personal responsibility isn't fashionable these days, or seemingly taught much.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I do not think there should be a lawsuit but.....yes the players know the risk going in. Just like a high steel worker putting up buildings. The employer still has to have policies in place that present a safe work space (of course within reason considering the sport). The culture of players playing injured runs very deep. As a hockey coach with A level kids I saw kids playing injured. We also made sure that if a kidd took a hit to the head that he did not play until we, the parents, and a doc said he was OK.

    Pros should be the same. There is a world of difference having a culture where you play with a broken arm and one where you feel you have to play after recieving a concussion.

    Yes, it is part of the sport and I am at the top of the list that calls Sidney Crosby a whiner and cry baby (hockey player). But if indeed his concussion was that severe then he did set the right example for NHL players, which are role model for kids, to speak up and say I need more time off.

    Again, it is personal responisbility, but that falls on the coach, medical staff, and owners of professional clubs and trickles down to youth sports.
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  3. #18
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    Ultimately it's the players call as to whether he's able to play or not.

    If the coach insists you go out and play when you're injured; then you have to decide if the money and fame is worth it or not.

    If you decide it is...then it's your decision and you can't have it both ways.
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    Ultimately it's the players call as to whether he's able to play or not.

    If the coach insists you go out and play when you're injured; then you have to decide if the money and fame is worth it or not.

    If you decide it is...then it's your decision and you can't have it both ways.
    That is the point...the caoches need to stop playing them if they have concussions. I hate unions but this one reason why unions came into existence. Safety. It is a dangerous sport and the employer has to provide a reaasonable work area. He can't prevent the concussions for the most part but he can make sure there is not an atmosphere where the coaches try to make you play with a concussion.

    EDIT: Just a steel worker...a boss can not ask him to go up to work without a safety harness and helmet. If the person is injured on the job the boss can not force him to work until he is recovered (in general). Like it or not sports is the same thing. It is a job for them.

    BTW: theier is another profession that I know of where folks perform injured, sometimes don't have the appropriate equipment, and they volunteered for the job: the military. I am not equating soldiers to athletes, just saying if you want to bring up personal responsibility then a private should be telling his sergeant that he can't do this or that because he is injured or sick. But most likey they will not because they do not want to be viewed as weak.

    Same is true for the athlete. Forget about getting wrapped up in the flag about the jobs service members do. It is the same analogy. And I am talking about in garrison, not in combat. Ever go to Ranger school? Guess how many guys are going to tell the cadre they might have a concussion.....NONE. It is a culture.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    That is the point...the caoches need to stop playing them if they have concussions. I hate unions but this one reason why unions came into existence. Safety. It is a dangerous sport and the employer has to provide a reaasonable work area. He can't prevent the concussions for the most part but he can make sure there is not an atmosphere where the coaches try to make you play with a concussion.
    In that case, football is done. There's no way you can remove the danger from that sport.

    There's always chess and bingo.
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  6. #21
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    In that case, football is done. There's no way you can remove the danger from that sport.

    There's always chess and bingo.
    That is not true. You don't play them while they are recovering. So what do you think is the right course? That players need to play with concussions? Yes or no.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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  7. #22
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    That's their decision to make, not mine, not the coach not the franchise owner. It's their health, career and money on the line.

    You weigh the risks, make your choice, live with the consequences (if there are any).

    And no, I wouldn't play someone who had a concussion but it's very hard to determine when a person is well enough to play. It's not cut and dry.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    That is not true. You don't play them while they are recovering. So what do you think is the right course? That players need to play with concussions? Yes or no.
    I believe it comes down to choices again on this. Can a coach force a player to get in the mix if he is injured or has possible concussions from the game? Can a player refuse to play if he is injured or experiencing some bad stuff from the contact? What?

    What it boils down to in this law suit is they want to blame someone for putting the conditions in place that made the guy kill himself.

    Nobody is saying that players need to be played while they may be recovering from injuries, it just is a risk of the occupation that exists. Could it be that his contract had exclusions if he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid? That would make a player take larger risks to further an injury? Maybe that needs to be addressed, his players contract.
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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    I believe it comes down to choices again on this. Can a coach force a player to get in the mix if he is injured or has possible concussions from the game? Can a player refuse to play if he is injured or experiencing some bad stuff from the contact? What?

    What it boils down to in this law suit is they want to blame someone for putting the conditions in place that made the guy kill himself.

    Nobody is saying that players need to be played while they may be recovering from injuries, it just is a risk of the occupation that exists. Could it be that his contract had exclusions if he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid? That would make a player take larger risks to further an injury. Maybe that needs to be addressed, his players contract.
    Yup, that is true. Look, I think it is important that the NFL and other professional leagues take this more seriously. Most athletes that are "elite" at any level want to play. They will hide injuries so they can play. That is a given. The coaches (like my aarmy analaogy with NCO's) need to recognize when a player can not play no matter what the player says.
    RGIII is a great example of a coach being an idiot and his decision to continue to play RGIII costs them the game, possibly how well he will be able to play in the future, and possibly how the franchise will fare in the coming years. It was not a concussion but the theory is still the same. The coach said the player said he could play so he played him and now his knee is totally messed up and will take months to recover from.
    BTW: This is not my Monday morning QB'ing here on this one. Almost every fan and sports announcerin the world watching the game was totally confused why he still had him playing even in the 2nd quarter.
    The coaches need to look at the long term and not the short term. Savard of the Boston Bruins can not play, and has not played in a couple of years because he returned to early. Now, they Bruins are stuck with a player with a long term contract that most likely will never play again.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Its sad, by most accounts Junior was not only a great football player but a pretty decent human being as well. So many players have had debilitating injuries from playing football, many have had brain injuries. Seau isn't the only NFL player to commit suicide. I think there definitely could be a connection between repeated brain trauma and suicide. I'll be watching the results. I love football, but if I had it to do over again my son probably wouldn't play.


    ^^Bovine fecal matter^^^^^^^^^

    in bold.

    What about all the people who commit suicide, and have never picked up a football, let alone had head trauma.

    Just another family looking for a handout the easy way.
    Nobody was negligent, nobody forced him to play, life is not certified safe.

    IMHO, they would be farther ahead to juggle a hot cup of coffee from the drivethru @ mickey D's between their legs.
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  11. #26
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    Suicide is a very complicated matter, not unlike the reasons why some go off on shooting rampages. We just can't get into the minds of some people to see what is stirring around. If we could, then think of the stuff that could be prevented or even stopped cold.

    The fact is we have no clue what some people are planning to do. There could be some external influence or injuries that contribute to what they do but unless we have proof positive, we are simply guessing. There is not a lot one can do when someone may just be determined to kill themselves and an intervention only prolongs the inevitible.

    I don't know what the answer may be, I think his family via this law suit are searching for them.
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Lawyers pretty much ruin everything. Obviously football is an extremely popular industry with a lot of national attention, and the legal aspects of player safety are complicated, but this stuff all seems overblown.

    This may not be relevant, but when I hear about this stuff, I think of all the 19 year olds who volunteered to serve and got blown up for $18k a year. Take a visit to Walter Reed sometime, and all you'll see a bunch of people missing limbs who still just want to go back to their unit and continue serving. Pro athletes are in their 20's and 30's and get paid hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, to play a game. The litigious society we live in is bothersome.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    That is the point...the caoches need to stop playing them if they have concussions. I hate unions but this one reason why unions came into existence. Safety. It is a dangerous sport and the employer has to provide a reaasonable work area. He can't prevent the concussions for the most part but he can make sure there is not an atmosphere where the coaches try to make you play with a concussion.

    EDIT: Just a steel worker...a boss can not ask him to go up to work without a safety harness and helmet. If the person is injured on the job the boss can not force him to work until he is recovered (in general). Like it or not sports is the same thing. It is a job for them.

    BTW: theier is another profession that I know of where folks perform injured, sometimes don't have the appropriate equipment, and they volunteered for the job: the military. I am not equating soldiers to athletes, just saying if you want to bring up personal responsibility then a private should be telling his sergeant that he can't do this or that because he is injured or sick. But most likey they will not because they do not want to be viewed as weak.

    Same is true for the athlete. Forget about getting wrapped up in the flag about the jobs service members do. It is the same analogy. And I am talking about in garrison, not in combat. Ever go to Ranger school? Guess how many guys are going to tell the cadre they might have a concussion.....NONE. It is a culture.
    My mind is reeling from this. Are you saying that people shouldn't join the military because they might get hurt? Or because they might get hurt in garrison? Maybe they should only join if they are willing to be hurt in garrison. Is that it?

    Austin

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    My mind is reeling from this. Are you saying that people shouldn't join the military because they might get hurt? Or because they might get hurt in garrison? Maybe they should only join if they are willing to be hurt in garrison. Is that it?

    Austin
    What? Where on earth in my words (not your interpretation) did I say anything like you posted. It was an analogy of how soldiers (which is a profession) do the same thing as professional athletes
    1. The volunteer
    2. They know the risk
    3. They will hide injuiries and work injured/wounded becuase they feel they need to tough it out.

    That is all. Point is coaches in the NFL and management have the same responsibility as NCO's and Officers in the miitary (talking specificlly about this issue, not the roles of NOC's and officers) about making sure their athletes/soldiers are physically fit to play/fight. By ignoring injuries and having an atmosphere of being super macho can hurt the player and team/soldier and mission.

    It was not a comparisn about who's jobs are mmore important or whether they should join or quit the military or anything like that.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    My mind is reeling from this. Are you saying that people shouldn't join the military because they might get hurt? Or because they might get hurt in garrison?
    The take-away I got from that analogy (of equating a steel worker to an athlete on a team to a soldier) is that there is a whole host of motivating factors in most things we do: personal pride, personal dedication to do well, peer pressure (to be seen as doing well, or at least trying to do so), the desire to meet the standards being set by one's leader (manager, captain or commander), fear of being seen to fail, fear of being identified as having reticence or a "case of the Mondays," and so on.

    Point being, the roles (job, athlete, soldier) aren't all that different, in terms of the motivating reasons why someone pushes through the pain, attempts to perform the role while hurting (or even injured), performs when asked/commanded.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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