Hostage: 6 yr Old: Long Time This Has Been Going On:

This is a discussion on Hostage: 6 yr Old: Long Time This Has Been Going On: within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Sure you know of this: Alabama bunker suspect faced court date, neighbors say - CNN.com How long do you think authorities should wait until they ...

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Thread: Hostage: 6 yr Old: Long Time This Has Been Going On:

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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Hostage: 6 yr Old: Long Time This Has Been Going On:

    Sure you know of this:

    Alabama bunker suspect faced court date, neighbors say - CNN.com

    How long do you think authorities should wait until they go in, and try to grab the kid? I don't know, I'm not a LEO and not there - but it's an interesting problem and the most serious decision of all to make, what to do in this life and death scene unfolding minute by minute.

    Boy, hope that young boy gets out of this... my prayers to him and his family - and to the authorities there. What a weight they all bear!
    Last edited by detective; January 31st, 2013 at 07:12 AM.
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Not knowing how this bunker is laid out im only going on what I can read. If they are lowering stuff thru a pipe it must be pretty secure to entry. Id also have to assume this guy probably has enough food and water down there to last him quite a while.
    Since they are calling it a bomb shelter im guessing LE forcing entry isnt going to be fast enough to keep him from killing the child if he would kill him. Hes killed once already and though executing a child thats been in there with him long enough for him to see this kid as someone he knows rather than an object its a real possiblilty he will kill him if they force entry.

    Same with tear gas he can be forced out probably but not before he kills the kid and likely himself I would guess.
    Drop in a flash bang maybe if they feel they can get in before he can recover. Probably hurt the child as well but hurt is better than dead.
    If and I repeat if he runs out of food and demands it or drink they might drug the food to trangulize the guy into sleep. Kid may eat it too but not a lot of options that I can see other than wait and hope he doesnt just off the both of them when he gets tired. Bad deal all around.

    Edit just reread the article. This dude shot at a truck with kid in it twice!! What was he doing walking around free with a misdemeanor charge instead of attempted murder and being locked up while awaiting trial????
    This ladies and germs is why i keep saying we keep letting nutcases walk around free AFTER they proved they are nutcases.
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    Member Array blanco64's Avatar
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    Finally some info as to what started this whole thing. Like Ghost1958 says above, this person should not have been still running around loose after proving himself willing to endanger the lives of others.

    Sounds like another example of a failed legal system, and potentially before that a failed mental healthcare system (although I still have reservations about the government being able to declare you insane and locking you up).

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This dude shot at a truck with kid in it twice!! What was he doing walking around free with a misdemeanor charge instead of attempted murder and being locked up while awaiting trial????
    This ladies and germs is why i keep saying we keep letting nutcases walk around free AFTER they proved they are nutcases.
    That's my question as well. After his arrest back in Dec. for popping off rounds at that pick-up (and beating a neighbors dog to death with a pipe prior to that), exactly WHAT was he doing walking around AND with access to his firearms...?!?

    My thoughts and prayers to the child, his family, and the bus drivers family. I hope they can get thay kid outta there alive and unhurt.
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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Not knowing how this bunker is laid out im only going on what I can read. If they are lowering stuff thru a pipe it must be pretty secure to entry. Id also have to assume this guy probably has enough food and water down there to last him quite a while.
    Since they are calling it a bomb shelter im guessing LE forcing entry isnt going to be fast enough to keep him from killing the child if he would kill him. Hes killed once already and though executing a child thats been in there with him long enough for him to see this kid as someone he knows rather than an object its a real possiblilty he will kill him if they force entry.

    Same with tear gas he can be forced out probably but not before he kills the kid and likely himself I would guess.
    Drop in a flash bang maybe if they feel they can get in before he can recover. Probably hurt the child as well but hurt is better than dead.
    If and I repeat if he runs out of food and demands it or drink they might drug the food to trangulize the guy into sleep. Kid may eat it too but not a lot of options that I can see other than wait and hope he doesnt just off the both of them when he gets tired. Bad deal all around.

    Edit just reread the article. This dude shot at a truck with kid in it twice!! What was he doing walking around free with a misdemeanor charge instead of attempted murder and being locked up while awaiting trial????
    This ladies and germs is why i keep saying we keep letting nutcases walk around free AFTER they proved they are nutcases
    .
    You are so right - on all your points - but especially this last one. There is certainly enough press and has been before this of not just playing coy with a crazy and life-threatening act and actor. I can't believe shooting at a vehicle with occupants, and a CHILD no less, is not a felony and at the time the man was not court-ordered for a Pysch. Evaluation. He IS nuts and he WAS nuts and yet he walks free with a rifle as if this was a parking ticket. The Judge's head should role, and maybe the prosecutor as well for that one. They are directly responsible for the danger to the life of this child occurring right now.

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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blanco64 View Post
    Finally some info as to what started this whole thing. Like Ghost1958 says above, this person should not have been still running around loose after proving himself willing to endanger the lives of others.

    Sounds like another example of a failed legal system, and potentially before that a failed mental healthcare system (although I still have reservations about the government being able to declare you insane and locking you up).
    It's actually compassionate as it evolved in the 19th Century as another legal option besides putting a person legally unable to tell right from wrong in prison for years and years, or life, or executing him. He's sent to a medical facility for treatment instead of just punished including by death. Remember, if someone's lawyer refused that option, his client wouldn't be free but put away in prison forever or condemned to death.

    Interestingly, the movement for creating something different for the truly insane was due to the case of a Presidential Assassin: I think the one who killed Garfield. He was so obviously insane and had such a psychotic and child-like belief he had acted a hero that upon his execution there was an outcry from many, public and scientist, to creating an alternate path for the insane. Years later, such an option was created.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Same with tear gas he can be forced out probably but not before he kills the kid and likely himself I would guess.
    Drop in a flash bang maybe if they feel they can get in before he can recover. Probably hurt the child as well but hurt is better than dead.
    I would think that since it is a (probably) well sealed, sort of small space neither the tear gas or flash/bang is a good option. Either could prove fatal in those circumstances.
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    From what they have published, it appears that this is a no-win situation. Any direct action would be too risky for the child. I agree with Ghost1958 that drugging him could be an option if and when they need food or water, but otherwise I see this as sit and wait.

    My thoughts and prayers go out to this little boy and his family.

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    Sleeping gas... A little ether down the air vent.
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    Distinguished Member Array airslot's Avatar
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    Sleeping gas... A little ether down the air vent.
    A little Nitros Oxide followed by a camera. Asleep-no bobby-traps-take door down- problem solved
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    I do believe that his "bunker" is what we refer to as a tornado shelter here.

    I have to agree with others that he should have been in jail after shooting at an occupied vehicle.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    It's actually compassionate as it evolved in the 19th Century as another legal option besides putting a person legally unable to tell right from wrong in prison for years and years, or life, or executing him. He's sent to a medical facility for treatment instead of just punished including by death. Remember, if someone's lawyer refused that option, his client wouldn't be free but put away in prison forever or condemned to death.

    Interestingly, the movement for creating something different for the truly insane was due to the case of a Presidential Assassin: I think the one who killed Garfield. He was so obviously insane and had such a psychotic and child-like belief he had acted a hero that upon his execution there was an outcry from many, public and scientist, to creating an alternate path for the insane. Years later, such an option was created.
    Then the doctor/lawyer/judge who decided he was no longer a threat should be held responsible for that decision. Then the crazies would not be walking the street after the first offense.
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    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    Twice shooting at a vehicle is twice attempted murder. Beating a dog to death with a pipe shows me all I need to know about this guy. I pray for the child.
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    I just want to make a point about everyone faulting the judge, prosecuter, and shrink (if involved). Is there anything saying that he was not examined? If he was examined and deemed "no threat to himself or others" then we are now plaing monday QB. How many times on this forum have we said we don't want shrinks to get involved because it is not an exact medical science? But wait....now it is the shrinks fault if he there was one.

    What did the prosecuter want? How is the proscecuter at fault? Does anyone have any more information on this case? The prosecuter can't keep the dude in jail.

    The Judge? Did he follow protocol and use what is considered normal handling of this case? We do have "guilty until proven innocent" in this country right? What was the bail set at? Did he order guns taken from the BG and order him to stay away from firearms? Suppose the BG did not comply and give up all his guns and he kept one?

    The lawyer? How in the world is he at fault? For doing his job in this sick system of ours?

    Too many unknonws, too many folks here willing to assign blame to people who may or may not have been doing their jobs properly. Funny thing is I just saw an old Adam 12 episode where the BG got off of a drug charge because the officers did not obtain the evidence properly. The judge was ticked that he had to let him go, the defense attorney thought the BG should be put in jail but he was doing his job to get the dude off according to our laws, and the prosecuter was ticked becasue there was nothing more he could do.

    Do I think that some judges and lawyers and DA's are screwed up? Sure. These folks? I don't know..not enough info. I do know our system sucks but it is to protect over zealous DA's, judges, and shrinks from putting folks behind bars that are truly innocent. I know a guy that was arrested for a DUI and he ended up being locked up for a mandatory 72 hour observation because he freaked out in the cell. (it was not the booze) He had severe claustraphobia and told the LEO's and shrinks but they would not beleive him.

    Of course this guy is a nutcase...but was he a nutcase when he was in front of the judge? Was there a reason for him be under observation?

    Rant over.....BTW: I hope they shoot the ******* and the kid is OK.
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    Time...
    is on the side of the Police.

    They will use to hopefully come to a peacful outcome in order not to jepordize the life of the child.
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