Today's useful factoids: gun control - AU vs. TX

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Thread: Today's useful factoids: gun control - AU vs. TX

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Today's useful factoids: gun control - AU vs. TX

    "Australia's got the best gun control in the world... they bought back all the evil black weapons, and they've had no mass shootings since the buy back... Isn't that wonderful?" That's what the anti's will tell you.

    So I thought I'd do a little comparison... Between Australia and, say, Texas... Texas ain't got no gun control.. Well, at least not any where near as onerous as Australia... there are other similarities... Texas is BIG (I know, Alaska's bigger) But Texas and Australia have similar populations.. and the majority of the populations are concentrated in urban areas. One has gun control laws, one doesn't (in comparison)...Australia's almost 4 times as big in land size as Texas... but that's got little to do with anything...

    So, let's look at mass murders in Texas And in Australia since 1966 (since that's as far back as I can find a mass killing in Texas). Those crazy Aussies had mass killings dating back to the 1800's. The time line ends in 2009, the last mass killing in Texas.

    Here's what I found:
    Texas 268,800 sq miles-----------------------Australia 2,970,000 sq miles
    population 26,059,203 -----------------------population 22,620,600
    Killed 59*------------------------------------Killed 74
    Wounded 82*--------------------------------Wounded 37
    Tot. Victims 141-----------------------------Tot. Victims 111

    *We got more victims, they got more dead... (maybe our emergency healthcare is better, I dunno) And one of the mass murders in Texas was a Terrorist Act (Fort Hood), that really shouldn't be included... but the antis love their body count... So I tried to make Texas look bad. Without Fort Hood, you could remove 13 dead and 24 wounded from the Texas numbers.

    Were any people victims of mass killings after the "great and famous" gun buy back program in Australia? The antis say no... The facts say different.

    Fact ONE:
    In October 2002. Monash University shooting Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five. I don't think he used a slingshot... I think he used a gun... And, while not really qualifying as a mass killing (with less than 4 dead) it was a mass shooting (7 attempts).
    Fact TWO:
    In June 2000. Childers Palace Fire: Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.

    Fact TWO is not a mass shooting, you say... I suppose you'd be right... But it is an attempted mass murder by a madman... and it PROVES one thing... you can ban all the guns you want... and even do it successfully, getting MOST of the guns out of the hands of the law abiding citizenry...

    But, you cannot stop madmen and criminals or criminal madmen from getting them and using them to try to kill many people... AND you cannot stop a madman from killing many people even if he has no access to firearms... He can use fire...

    In our own country, they have used Ryder trucks, they have used box cutters, they have used pipe bombs, LP bombs, and they have used mail bombs.... Inanimate objects do not cause mass murder... People do...

    Here's a two column listing in PDF format of the mass killings in Texas and Australia... I haven't finished fleshing it out with verbiage... so, it's "...Just the facts, ma'am."

    Texas 268.pdf

    Just thought you might be interested.
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    Here's what I found:
    Texas 268,800 sq miles-----------------------Australia 2,970,000 sq miles
    population 26,059,203 -----------------------population 22,620,600
    Killed 59*------------------------------------Killed 74
    Wounded 82*--------------------------------Wounded 37

    Tot. Victims 141-----------------------------Tot. Victims 111

    I don't know about you, but it appears Aussies can shoot straighter than Texans. That's upsetting.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Here's what I found:
    Texas 268,800 sq miles-----------------------Australia 2,970,000 sq miles
    population 26,059,203 -----------------------population 22,620,600
    Killed 59*------------------------------------Killed 74
    Wounded 82*--------------------------------Wounded 37

    Tot. Victims 141-----------------------------Tot. Victims 111

    I don't know about you, but it appears Aussies can shoot straighter than Texans. That's upsetting.
    So, you're saying they got better "gun control"?
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    The problem with comparing statistics from one country to the next really doesn't hammer home the point of either side, those stats can be skewed to fit whatever agenda seems to be at that time.

    Piers Morgan loves to say how many British are killed by guns in comparison to U.S. citizens because Britian has banned the gun from the public sector and therefore nearly eliminated gun deaths. Oh, "we have a few" he says but he is convinced that we Americans are obsessed with guns and unless we come to terms with it, we will continue to see the carnage. There is no comparrison to us and to Great Britian. Or Australia or Pago Pago or whatever.

    We can argue about gun ownership being our right, have a cargo ship load of statistics and that is that, but the real fact is that we have a crime problem, not an inanimate object problem. If someone could come out with a solution for why someone desires to kill another human or a mass amount, then we can have some serious gun talk. If not, then the low amount of guns and low gun deaths really does not compute because people are still killing each other with guns, even with the absence of them. We have been killing each other ever since mankind learned how and unless we find a way to stop that, no kind of "control" will make it go away.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    The problem with comparing statistics from one country to the next really doesn't hammer home the point of either side, those stats can be skewed to fit whatever agenda seems to be at that time.
    Oh, I agree 100%... just one reason I compared Australia to a state... I would do the same with the UK, compare it to the nearest state in size and population. And, as has been pointed out... Britain has had a very low gun murder rate historically... to drop from 5 to 2 in one year is a +50% drop... in a negligible amount anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    Piers Morgan loves to say how many British are killed by guns in comparison to U.S. citizens because Britian has banned the gun from the public sector and therefore nearly eliminated gun deaths. Oh, "we have a few" he says but he is convinced that we Americans are obsessed with guns and unless we come to terms with it, we will continue to see the carnage. There is no comparrison to us and to Great Britian. Or Australia or Pago Pago or whatever.
    The only purpose in bringing Australia into it is that Australia is frequently used as an example of mandatory gun buyback/confiscation putting a complete halt to mass murder... which it does not, as shown.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    We can argue about gun ownership being our right, have a cargo ship load of statistics and that is that, but the real fact is that we have a crime problem, not an inanimate object problem. If someone could come out with a solution for why someone desires to kill another human or a mass amount, then we can have some serious gun talk. If not, then the low amount of guns and low gun deaths really does not compute because people are still killing each other with guns, even with the absence of them. We have been killing each other ever since mankind learned how and unless we find a way to stop that, no kind of "control" will make it go away.
    We do have a crime problem... a violent crime problem... and that problem is that we let criminals plead down, we let them out early, and we incarcerate the criminals longest who are guilty of victimless crimes (pot/drug use/possession)... Murderers plead down to assault, rapists plead down to being in a park after closing, and armed robbers plead down to trespass. And I have always said it is not the inanimate object it is the criminal use of the tool by madmen.

    If for no other reason, I present it as a tool to use when discussing the topic of gun control, should an anti bring up "Australia's stellar example." The rebuttal would be... What about the Childers Palace Fire with a death toll of 15, or the Monash University shooting where the student shot 7 people, both incidents occurred after the gun buyback program.. and prove that it IS indeed the madman, not the tool (Childers Palace fire) that perpetrate mass murder with whatever tool is available.

    Bottom line? Just another tool for the toolbox, when engaging the other side in reasonable debate... And, some choose not to waste there time doing that, And I'm "jiggy with that," too... Some folks, on both sides of the issue, can have reasonable discussions on the topic... We can't convert them all, but we can cause some to think... to reason... and perhaps to just let us be.
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    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Here's what I found:
    Texas 268,800 sq miles-----------------------Australia 2,970,000 sq miles
    population 26,059,203 -----------------------population 22,620,600
    Killed 59*------------------------------------Killed 74
    Wounded 82*--------------------------------Wounded 37

    Tot. Victims 141-----------------------------Tot. Victims 111

    I don't know about you, but it appears Aussies can shoot straighter than Texans. That's upsetting.
    No, Texans are just better at defending themselves and avoiding getting shot. Plus, when we shoot back it makes it harder for the BG to hit us.
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