Pistorius Case: - What Do You Think of All This? + No Self-Defense Law?:

This is a discussion on Pistorius Case: - What Do You Think of All This? + No Self-Defense Law?: within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Pistorius case: South Africa's legal system in the spotlight - CNN.com I can't figure this on a couple of points: the story of getting up ...

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Thread: Pistorius Case: - What Do You Think of All This? + No Self-Defense Law?:

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    Pistorius Case: - What Do You Think of All This? + No Self-Defense Law?:

    Pistorius case: South Africa's legal system in the spotlight - CNN.com

    I can't figure this on a couple of points: the story of getting up and shooting a burglar who turns out to be a his girlfriend sounds reasonable except it's hard to buy he didn't know she was really next to him in bed sleeping - and I guess he said he yelled at the person in the bathroom before he shot. So why didn't his girlfriend in the bathroom just yell back and identify herself? (I THINK he said he yelled, but I'm not completely sure on that point) And why would she lock the bathroom door if her boyfriend was the only person in the house? Unless, that is, he was acting in a threatening manner. His story sounds pretty far-fetched to me.

    Second, they say even if he did make a mistake and think she was a BG it will still be Murder - altho not premeditated. I guess their Law doesn't include "Reasonable Belief" as part of Self-Defense Law. I guess there is really no Self-Defense Law in South Africa. NO matter what if you kill a person, it's murder. Wha? That's what this article says.

    I thought all countries had Self-Defense Law. S.A. is really an oddity.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    By the way, was our Self-Defense Law part of the Constitution or did the different states enact such laws after it was written?
    Last edited by detective; February 22nd, 2013 at 08:19 PM.

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    It's an interesting case, for sure...especially now that the lead LE officer is also being investigated for attempted murder.

    I don't buy his story for one minute. He can't be that stupid. I think they were fighting, she locked herself in the bathroom and wouldn't come out. He went into a rage and shot through the door. Of course later when he calmed down and realized what he had done he called the police and told them it was self defense. What else could he say, other than the truth of course.

    I'm sure lots of other things will come out in the next few weeks, but right now, given what we know, that's my theory.

    Does anyone know if her skull was crushed like was rumored the other day?
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    It's an interesting case, for sure...especially now that the lead LE officer is also being investigated for attempted murder.

    I don't buy his story for one minute. He can't be that stupid. I think they were fighting, she locked herself in the bathroom and wouldn't come out. He went into a rage and shot through the door. Of course later when he calmed down and realized what he had done he called the police and told them it was self defense. What else could he say, other than the truth of course.

    I'm sure lots of other things will come out in the next few weeks, but right now, given what we know, that's my theory.

    Does anyone know if her skull was crushed like was rumored the other day?
    I don't think the Prosecution released the forensics on the blood on the bat - which is odd because that first Prosecutor went after him with everything on earth. Another puzzle.

    I agree with your thinking on his story - you have to swallow a lot to believe him. And I think the scenario you paint is exactly what happened: sudden rage out of an argument and he grabs his gun and shoots her behind the locked bathroom door. Good thinking!

    What do you think about their being no Self-Defense Law in S.A.? I'm shocked.

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    Pistorius case: South Africa's legal system in the spotlight - CNN.com
    Here, if you make a mistake and the victim of your shots is an innocent, if others in your position would also reasonably conclude they were faced with a BG intent on killing them and also would have shot, the Law would still find you Innocent under Self-Defense Law.

    I can see from the case in South Africa it's REAL good we have that.
    What? The dude killed and probably murdered his girlfriend. Shooting through a door is likely not even a true self defense shooting in many cases.

    I don't understand how it's "REAL good" that we have these laws (if they even exist) judging by this case.

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    I read that only about 10% of the cases that go to trial in South Africa are found guilty.
    That's weird.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

    http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...eaves%20office

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    What? The dude killed and probably murdered his girlfriend. Shooting through a door is likely not even a true self defense shooting in many cases.

    I don't understand how it's "REAL good" that we have these laws (if they even exist) judging by this case.
    Well , regardless of this case, I meant it's good we have Self-Defense Law. EVERYONE would have to take whatever anyone decides to do to them because if we acted against a killer we'd be guilty of murder. THAT is screwed up.

    I'll amend my words to reflect your point. They do sound confusing now. Thanks. I think is story is off the wall too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    I read that only about 10% of the cases that go to trial in South Africa are found guilty.
    That's weird.
    Really. I wonder what they require to prove it. The more I hear the gladder I am I live in the U.S. - even with all its problems.

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    From what I heard last night on CNN about his version of things, I can understand how she may have gotten out of bed to walk to the bath while his back was turned (or was he outside?) when he heard noises in front. I can not understand how he did not see her in bed because it was dark, but he COULD find his pistol (granted, if he kept it in a specific place he would not have to see it, but just feel around for it). Finally, I can understand how he may have been fearful after just waking, especially given his disability, but why would he think that an intruder was in the bathroom? I mean, would a thief go into a bathroom to locate valuables?

    I agree with Cold Shot that shooting through a door is not really self-defense, even if he was as fearful as he claims, so I cannot understand that aspect of his story. From the (very) little I know of the situation as he described it, I would conclude that either he is a complete trigger-happy idiot, or a murderer.

    Are there witnesses that heard the argument/yelling that the prosecution alleges? If so, he is toast.

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    Could care less. SA is very different from the US. Been there done that. Again, could care less.

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    I don't think any of our self defense/stand your ground laws would hold up if you shoot someone through a locked door -- unless they were also shooting at you through the door.

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    This is South Africa and not the US, that being said, here in the US it would be Murder 1 as this clearly doesn't reach our standards for self defense. One his life was not in Jeopardy as there was a locked door between him and the alledged assailant, the alledged assailant didn't have the opportunity because of the door between them, and he could not determine that the alledged assailant had the ability to inflict grievous bodily harm.

    Shooting through a locked door? Sorry but it murder 1!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    From what I heard last night on CNN about his version of things, I can understand how she may have gotten out of bed to walk to the bath while his back was turned (or was he outside?) when he heard noises in front. I can not understand how he did not see her in bed because it was dark, but he COULD find his pistol (granted, if he kept it in a specific place he would not have to see it, but just feel around for it). Finally, I can understand how he may have been fearful after just waking, especially given his disability, but why would he think that an intruder was in the bathroom? I mean, would a thief go into a bathroom to locate valuables?

    I agree with Cold Shot that shooting through a door is not really self-defense, even if he was as fearful as he claims, so I cannot understand that aspect of his story. From the (very) little I know of the situation as he described it, I would conclude that either he is a complete trigger-happy idiot, or a murderer.

    Are there witnesses that heard the argument/yelling that the prosecution alleges? If so, he is toast.
    I think you hit the nail on the head. There are many things you have to accept that, frankly, defy common-sense in order to accept his story. You get by one and then there's 5 more staring you in the face. It just doesn't sound credible taken as a whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevePVB View Post
    I don't think any of our self defense/stand your ground laws would hold up if you shoot someone through a locked door -- unless they were also shooting at you through the door.
    So you would need to be able to see the supposed BG? I see. Makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    This is South Africa and not the US, that being said, here in the US it would be Murder 1 as this clearly doesn't reach our standards for self defense. One his life was not in Jeopardy as there was a locked door between him and the alledged assailant, the alledged assailant didn't have the opportunity because of the door between them, and he could not determine that the alledged assailant had the ability to inflict grievous bodily harm.

    Shooting through a locked door? Sorry but it murder 1!
    Yeah, see your point. No threat behind a locked door. His act therefore is aggressive not defensive. I never thought of that. He really has zippo for a case.

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    A life was cut short for no good reason. Whether is happens in South Africa or America it's a tragedy. I hope the court system in SA does the right thing. The only thing I know for sure is he is guilty of something.
    detective likes this.

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